Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive167
Ashtul
[edit]| Ashtul topic-banned indefinitely, with provision for reconsideration after six months. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:50, 7 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ashtul[edit]
Discussion concerning Ashtul[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Ashtul[edit]A lot more to consider Preemptive quick resolutionThe edit in question is completely insignificant and was returned by Nishidani only due to the massive rollback he has done to other changes. Before getting into a long discussion, I asked Nishidani to comment on it which can resolve this AE request quickly with none of us wasting any additional time. Ashtul (talk) 20:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC) Long dirty roadI have asked Nishidani to admit the text in question should have been removed but he dodged the request claiming it is 'irrelevant'. I will demonstrate why it is and later the background for this.
So to summery, this 'revert' is eliminating old content during a rewrite of an article with obvious need for love. In a duplicate section - old, false, redundant content was removed for the second time after a massive, careless revert by Nishidani. I will publish very relevant background in a bit. Ashtul (talk) 06:15, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
I was blocked then topic banned, then blocked for breaking the topic ban then pardoned. HJ Mitchell demanded I will 'keep a respectful distance from Nishidani'. Nishidani admittedly was aware of this requirement as he was pinged to the page. "Naturally" his instinct was to WP:HOUND me in order to get in my face and provoke me by massive edits to the two pages I recently edited, Community settlement (Israel) and Barkan Industrial Park. I know I should WP:AGF but with WP:POVPUSH statements such as 'Israeli-occupied West Bank', 'in the Occupied Territories' and elimination of my edit 'At Barkan Industrial Park, thousands of Israelis and Palestinians coexist and work side by side in many of the factories', which was already eliminated before twice by other members of the pack Nomoskedasticity and Huldra, it has diminished (I'll touch on the pack practice later). Nishidani has since apologized and admitted for possible wrongdoing (20:26, 23 February 2015), which was after the original WarEdit complaint was filed by Nomoskedasticity (14:09, 23 February 2015). Yet, it didn't occur to him to ask Nomoskedasticity to drop this complaint. Now I want to explain 'The Pack' which I've mentioned earlier. It is quite a fascinating phenomenon to see users Nomoskedasticity, Huldra, Nishidani and Zero0000 keep on popping on the same pages, reverting the same content. It seems like a great system that prevents anyone for making a case for a WP:WAR Examples can be found here, here, here (around 21:38, 17 January 2015), here (around 19:29, 18 January 2015), and here. I am not sure if I'll go as far as blaming them for active WP:Canvassing, but it happened enough times around me to shows a pattern.
I think at this point I have wrote everything I have about why the revert in question (and the one second one) weren't WP:WAR, WP:1RR but rather the duty of an editor to correction of a mistake done by the previous revert where opposition is unlikely. If this isn't enough of an explanation maybe Nishidani is right and I have notable problems. Since my topic ban was lifted I opened an RfD (which concluded with consensus in a few days and effected tens of articles) and RfC (so far, the two answers support my position - 'rampant POV-pushing and totally unacceptable') exactly to eliminate this type of conflicts. If this does sound reasonable, I would like a mechanism to be put in place so The Pack won't gang on me again. Cheers, Ashtul (talk) 08:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Response to Nishidani complaint about my allegationsI have wrote on your page within hours of this request, asking you to admit the material should have been removed. You went in circles and wouldn't do it because this of course will dissolve this whole request. All was left was to tell the full story. Let me ask you again, should the material removed be included in the article? Ashtul (talk) 12:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Response to EdJohnstonBoth revert were correction of mistaken edit by another editor. WP:3RR is part of WP:Edit warring which clearly states - "An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions". Since there is no content dispute, there is no WP:WAR and thus no 1RR. In hundreds of words by Nishidani he never argued the content belongs in the article. Not once! He know it shouldn't and this whole AE request is an attempt to eliminate an editor with different opinions. Ashtul (talk) 13:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)Claims for my POVPUSH or WAR[edit]I do have a strong POV but I don't push it. Some of my statement might need moderate work but I believe I contribute more on that field then do damage. Much work is needed on many pages. An example for a change I've done recently is this. Two following sentences from the same source but the date is attributed only to the second part. As of September 2010, only a small minority among them is violent. - ridicules. I haven't followed who put it this way to begin with but it is an obvious POVPUSH which I have corrected. On Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2015, I have tried to bring some NPOV to the table but Nishidani wouldn't hear it. If you compare the lead to that of Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2014 you can see the lead grew from decent NPOV to a political manifesto with multiple sources criticizing Israel. Two pro-Israeli sources introduced to lead for WP:DUE were removed by Nishidani b/c "(3) removed false and unnecessary lead tags". I have asked him about items on the list that doesn't fit the category at Talk:Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2015#Confiscation notice but over a week later he didn't even bother answering. A great source by Shin Bet I introduced with talk page entry was move to the very end of the monthly lead stating "This is a useful source and I will use it on a monthly basis. However unlike every other source, it has no details" but a simple look shows the first part is by no-name group that provides even less details then my source, not to mention, detainees aren't covered by the definition in the lead. Blaming me for POV discrepancy when Nishidani is in the picture is nonsense. I didn't go to war over those b/c he took control over those pages and won't hear anything from new editors. On Skunk (weapon) he would resist any change until Cptnono just chopped of one third of the article. His rollback on CS is exactly the same behavior. He didn't even go through all the changes to check whether they should stay in or not. Returning the part on which we all spending our precious time here can be considered unintentional WP:VANDALISM but in hundreds of word and 2 days Nishidani didn't even stated once that he disagree with my action of removing it and as I stated before, I can't see how 1RR rule can be applied when there is no WP:Content dispute. Ashtul (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
A lot more to consider 4 days after...No editor made a claim that a content dispute exist. Without it, there is no WP:WAR thus 1RR doesn't apply. Ashtul (talk) 22:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
A final word[edit]I was confused all along as for why Nomoskedasticity went for a 'revert' which was not part of any content conflict as I have made total of over 20 edit in two series and how come I mixed up the time. It finally came to me - I worked on the article in two sessions. The first until 12:00 where I have made numerous changes to the content Nishidani added and a second session from 14:01 none of which was sections Nishidani wrote. In between I edited several other articles (TaxiBot, Palestinian stone-throwing, Bil'in, Wikipedia:Third opinion). There are more then 24 hours between the edits I have made on Nishidani's edits and the revert in question is material that Nishidani doesn't even claim is content dispute, basically admitting him putting in back in place was a mistake. I truly believe I have done everything to keep the rules. Nomoskedasticity have filed the 3RR request within 1 hour of this uncontested 2nd revert and posted on my request to HJ Mitchell in a short time as well. Obviously he is trying to eliminate me as an editor. This isn't just WP:Hound, I think for this a new policy need to be call WP:hunt. Ashtul (talk) 09:53, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Answers to claims about my POV practices
500 words[edit]Nishidani's statement in 500 words summery doesn't include one word about the revert in question. Why? B/C there is no case. Nomoskedasticity wrote about Barkan but prior to introducing 'Demotix' I searched for it and it has currently 186 results thus seems as RS. Just to be safe, I later added an ha'aretz source. Both Haaretz and Ynet speak about good working relationships "They work shoulder to shoulder with Israelis. If you don't like this one word, why remove the whole paragraph? It seems as if Palestinians daily suffering is NPOV and well being is POVPUSHING. Why?
So in one (long) sentence - Nishidani is fully aware part of his revert was wrong on an article that needed a lot of work but he wants me gone so bad he will WP:HUNT me with a policy which came to prevent WP:WAR when not even WP:Content dispute exist but only a faulty WP:ROLLBACK. Ashtul (talk) 08:44, 3 March 2015 (UTC) Response to Nishidani
Thank you for allowing me to highlight the fact I'm not in the wrong here! Ashtul (talk) 13:32, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by EvergreenFir[edit]As I said over at the AN3 report in response to the user saying their timezone settings made them inadvertently revert before the 24 hours were up, the user appears to be waiting for the restriction window to end. They did so without discussing the edits in the meantime. It's gaming to just wait for the instant the 24 hours are up. To quote WP:3RR for the sake of the user, not the reviewing admins:
Statement by IjonTichyIjonTichy[edit]It seems Ashtul has learned almost nothing from his blocks and topic ban, and is repeating the same behaviors that led to the blocks and ban. He is gaming the system and editing in a highly partisan way. He appears to have made an effort to familiarize himself to some modest extent with the letter of WP policies, but his understanding, and more importantly his acceptance, of the spirit of the policies are very poor. He still does not understand or accept the culture of WP. He still does not have a clue. Ashtul's disruptive editing significantly reduces the work output of productive editors. Thanks and regards, IjonTichy (talk) 15:03, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Nishidani[edit]Ashtul, while depicting me as some hounding monster, part of a hunting pack of POV pushers (the sprawling defamatory screed above after my attempts to keep this polite violates WP:AGF), insists I renege on my undertaking not to comment here. All I can see is any comment I might make being an occasion for a massive expansion of erratic counter-charges. Of the huge wall of text and embedded charges above I'll give but one example of how unreliable his reportage is.
What did I do in that innocuous edit?
This had been removed by Ashtul with the edit summary: 'Removed WP:OR statement in the lead which is WP:EXCEPTIONAL)' These are both spurious. I introduced 4 academic sources, three of which say this in various ways:
That West Bank settlements, most of which are community settlements were designed to hinder a Palestinian state is known even to Blind Freddy and his dog. Ashtul won't accept that.
That was a false edit summary (Kibbutzim and moshavim were not mentioned in that source). But I made an accommodation to his point, and reintroduced the section with more specific data and sourcing by writing:
This was based on the source wording:
Ashtul had rewritten this in the following unrecognizable terms:
(a) This sentence is totally garbled English. 'Monitoring', cannot be a (human) subject with qualities like a shared ideology: it is a process exercised over people, etc.(b) it radically alters the source language that clearly states the community settlements exclude candidates for residency on ethnic grounds by denying Palestinian citizens of Israel their legal right to live in them, by a euphemism that makes the object of exclusion (Palestinians) into a subject for inclusion 'like-minded individuals'. Whereas the source, and my edit, state Palestinians are excluded, Ashtul twists this into a principle of inclusion, making an ethnic discrimination (against Palestinians) into an ethnic affirmation (of Jewishness). That's typical of his editing all over these articles. He makes Palestinian realities disappear in the face of sources that describe them. His edit summaries are deceptive, his reference to relevant policies incomprehensible, and his respect for the wording of highly reliable sources indifferent.Nishidani (talk) 16:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
________________________________________ Refactor per Stifle's request. I don't know why this is such a hard call.
Statement by (Cptnono)[edit]Wouldn't an interaction ban be sufficient instead of a lengthy topic ban? It looks to me like Astul is trying but having a hard time working with Nish. Since no one has offered to mentor the user, maybe give the two an extended break from each other. No reverts. Maybe no talking even. I also still believe that Nish should have been more open to Ashtul's suggestions about settlements but it is hard to collaborate when everyone is off on the wrong foot. Ashtul could bring something good to the project and separating the two like school children (or how about prize fighters) might be all that is needed. Cptnono (talk) 23:07, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
This is at best a 'partial revert'. Nishidani and I have conversed in length here (I believe ~20k out of ~30k in the thread). Then I waited for 24 hours which were miscalculated b/c of local time (I have fixed that). If there was a 1RR on anything which constituted a content dispute I would say - 'sorry, I f***ed up. Ban me indefinitely' but that isn't the case. This is not Carmel case where I made a mistake. It was a content dispute and I broke 1RR. Ashtul (talk) 18:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Huldra[edit]You need to have a steep learning-curve if you are to survive editing in the Israel/Palestine area, and Ashtul is behind the curve, so to speak. Besides the 1RR violation, he inserts material from clear activist sources, without stating that it is from an activist source. Over on Barkan Industrial Park he insert material from Palestinian Media Watch. Ashtul claims here that the consensus from WP:RSN is that "There are several conversations regarding PMW with the majority concluding it is WP:RS thus I state 'consensus seems to be'." A quick search of the archives gives me this: "PMW is an Israeli organization dedicated to "exposing" the evil of the Palestinians by careful selection of material from Palestinian media. In other words, it is a political organization not a news organisation," and this. That he wants to pass off material from clear activist sources without attribution, shows to me that he still lacks a basic understanding of editing in the area. Huldra (talk) 23:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Igorp lj[edit]Nishidani, can you please explain what RS approve this text from the head, quoted by you?
I do not find something about Galilee in RS what you placed below your quote. --Igorp_lj (talk) 16:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC) First of all, I'd suggest not to jump to conclusions, as it has been not so long ago (:) As far as I can see nobody here insists that the disputed paragraph should be in the article. Then the 1-3RR violations' question itself is questionable too. Therefore, I'd ask someone neutral to check out other arguments against Ashtul. Now, to the question of "persecution". Not sure that these accusations are true. Any article may be in WatchList of any party, but ... it's no secret that cooperation with Nishidani isn't easy, especially when it concerns the fact that contrary to his personal POV, which for some reason he is considered neutral. I've already mentioned his didactic tone towards beginners and other things that might just discourage anyone to desire & to do something in Wiki. I think that a problem - isn't Ashtul, who still has the patience and desire to break through the current, not healthy situation. IMHO, it may be a perfect remedy to stop administration in those cases when parties expressed different points of view, but (!) to require from them not to add to an article any text, which wasn't previously agreed on an corresponding Talk page. I'd propose to check this decision for ~ some months' period and after it to see if / how it works.. --Igorp_lj (talk) 18:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Ashtul[edit]
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Steverci
[edit]| Indef TBAN from topics related to Armenia and Azerbaijan as well as ethnic conflicts related to Turkey. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:27, 12 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Steverci[edit]
I resubmit my report on Steverci, as the previous one was closed as no action due to the indefinite ban of Steverci as a sockmaster (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Steverci/Archive). Since he has already been unblocked, I believe the reason for the dismissal of the previous AE report is no longer valid. In my opinion, in the view of all the disruption caused by this user in arbitration covered areas, BLP articles, and sockpuppetry (see the archived report), this user should not be allowed to edit the Armenia-related articles (covered by arbitration) as if nothing ever happened. Plus, I don't see why anyone would need 5 sock accounts (plus one that was prevented from creation by the system) to edit arbitration covered Armenia related articles, and I personally do not find particularly convincing Steverci's explanation as to why at least two of the sock accounts edited the same articles as the sockmaster account (he claims that that he forgot to log out from socks and log in into main account, see discussion at his talk). In my opinion, Steverci's unblock request should have been discussed at WP:AE, in view of the report that was submitted here just before the ban. I also think that if Steverci is to be granted permission to edit Wikipedia, at the very least he should be banned from AA and related topics. Grandmaster 20:41, 5 March 2015 (UTC) I don't see the point in Étienne Dolet bringing up here alleged misconduct by another editor. If he believes that the other user's conduct deserves the admins' attention, or the report on that other user was closed prematurely, he is free to resubmit it. But whatever other people do cannot be a justification for Steverci's actions, especially considering that he edit warred not just with Parishan, but with many other editors across multiple pages. In addition, Steverci's misconduct is not limited to edit warring only. Steverci has made serious BLP violations, reintroducing the same POV info multiple times despite the warnings from the admin, and as it can be seen from the info presented by Kansas Bear, that was not the only instance of BLP violations by Steverci. On top of everything Steverci was caught using multiple sock accounts, all of which edited the arbitration covered Armenia related articles. I don't see any other editor mentioned here doing anything even remotely close to that. Grandmaster 13:02, 9 March 2015 (UTC) Étienne Dolet, I fail to understand how Steverci's BLP violations or sock puppetry could be "entangled" or "interconnected" with Parishan's editing. Steverci's interactions with Parishan are only a small part of the issues with Steverci's editing. For instance, how Parishan's actions could justify edit warring and BLP violations by Steverci at Douglas Frantz, as described by FreeRangeFrog in the archived report? Grandmaster 18:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Steverci[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Steverci[edit]All I really have to add in addition to my previous statement is to remind that the user who was warring my edits, violating 3RR, and had a long history of AA2 edit warring against multiple users in many articles had only gotten a warning. I see no reason why I should be banned from AA2 besides Grandmaster's obvious battleground mentality against Armenian users. And for those who don't want to backtrack through previous discussions, I had never created a sock, I merely misunderstood the rules for alternate accounts, hence why two admins agreed to remove my block soon after it was placed. --Steverci (talk) 23:51, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
User:HJ Mitchell Well that is quite curious. I'm not sure if you just read my links or not, but EtienneDolet provides literally dozens of instances where Parishan had been edit warring across many, many articles, all quite recently. If that is not compelling enough to garner any support for sanctions, when considering violating WP:3RR alone is supposed to be an instant block, I don't see how you could support sanctions for me. Also, I noticed your statement on Jaqeli's appeal about loosening things and going from there. Why not consider something similar here? In the first request about me someone mentioned setting a 1RR for Parishan and I. Perhaps we could go that route for me and see how things work? Indefinite sanctions are typically preceded by sanctions that go 24h>1w>1month>etc unless there are personal attacks for blatant vandalism (which I've never done) and seems overly aggressive, especially considering other users are only getting warnings. This could be helpful, it would essentially mean I get a severe sanction if I edit ware again, and if I don't then that would solve the problem. I would agree to not violate it. --Steverci (talk) 18:26, 8 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Kansas Bear[edit]
Just from these incidents alone, I am not convinced that Steverci is capable of editing neutrally in the areas of Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkey. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:21, 7 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by EtienneDolet[edit]@HJ Mitchell: To say Parishan's edit-warring was only an issue in 2007 is not what archived AE reports suggest. The closure of his AE report, which I found premature, has everything to do with the conduct of Steverci here. This is not to say that I am defending Steverci's conduct as an editor, but I feel compelled to say that Parishan's reversions of multiple users across multiple AA2 articles a concern in and of itself. Reverting users en masse is not a proper way to solve any problem, even if those users appear to behave poorly. I don't find it acceptable to place blame upon newly registered users as an excusable justification for misconduct either. For the record, this is not the first time Parishan has been implicated in such matters. In a recent recent AE report filed against him, he was formally warned about concerns almost identical to the ones I have brought forth here. The warning, which was conveyed both in the closing remarks of the report, and subsequently notified on his talk page by admin Seraphimblade, is as stated:
Even after the formal warning, Parishan proceeds with the same course of action. He hasn’t stopped the edit-warring, nor have I seen him improve his conduct with these type of users since then. It seems that he found it more convenient to edit-war over a vast array of AA2 articles; but this time, he has broadened his scope to include more users (i.e. Steverci, Hayordi, and others), despite being warned about these very same issues in the recent past. More specifically, Parishan along with Steverci have hit the 3RR mark at Shusha massacre, even when he was explicitly reminded about revert limitations and to report editors editing in the AA area who are behaving poorly rather than edit warring with them. How many more warnings should be given for such conduct? Étienne Dolet (talk) 07:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Result concerning Steverci[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Cwobeel
[edit]| Block lifted now that the immediate issue has been resolved; comments on the longer-term issue ar invited at the original AE request (which I'm about to un-archive). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:44, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
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[Copied from User talk:Cwobeel per Cwobeel's request via email.] ―Mandruss ☎ 19:28, 9 March 2015 (UTC) Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
Statement by Cwobeel[edit]
After disagreement about adding material to the Steven Emerson article, I started a BLP/N thread asking uninvolved editors to weigh in, regarding ChrisGualtieri's opinion that the material was a violation of BLP, and his claims that WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE would apply. The thread was started on March 4 [20] . Several editors weighted in, including Nomoskedasticity, Binksternet, Atsme, and Serialjoepsycho, and after a discussion that lasted until March 6, we arrived to consensus that the material was properly sourced to impeccable publications and not violating BLP. In Binksternet's words: After a discussion related to the possible need for an admin to close the BLP/N discussion at WP:ANFRC, I stated that ANRFC is for cases in which there is no clear consensus. As there was obvious consensus for inclusion, I went ahead and made the edit at 05:10, on March7: [21] The edit was reverted by Gualtieri [22]], followed by an AE report [23] As a result of the AE report, HJ Mitchell blocked me for 15 days, without affording me a chance to defend myself at AE against what I believe was a spurious complaint. I made several requests on my talk page for a review of the block, but there was no response. Therefore, I appeal the block per my defense as follows:
There was not a single editor supporting the block, with the exception of Gualtieri which I believe used AE as a way to get the upper hand in a content dispute after his arguments were found to be invalid, and his claims of BLP violation to be baseless and unfounded. I understand that a better course of action would have been for a third party to close the BLP/N discussion, but consensus was obvious, and the material in question and its sources remain in the article (with some edits performed later on by Binksternet). Gualtieri could have avoided this entire drama, by simply accepting the established consensus and moving on (as he did after Binksternet's edits), instead of filing an AE to get me blocked. I acknowledge that I have been blocked previously, but I believe I have learned my lessons, and I have followed process looking to establish consensus for material that is challenged to ensure full compliance with BLP. I also believe that ArbCom discretionary sanctions on BLPs were not designed to be used to suppress carefully sourced content about living persons, as well argued by Nomoskedasticity in his comment at AE, when there is an obvious consensus for inclusion. I kindly request the block to be reviewed, as I believe the AE report by the OP was not made in good faith and the block was made in haste, given there was consensus for inclusion, and that the sources were of the highest quality as required by WP:BLP. I also ask for the block to be temporarily lifted so that I can respond at AE; I will strictly confine myself to edits there until the appeal is closed. - Cwobeel (talk) 14:08, 9 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by HJ Mitchell[edit]Statement by Serialjoepsycho[edit]I wanted to offer that it seems even atsme supported inclusion of the material upon finding the related was being discussed for the body of the article not just the lead[32]. Cwobeel thought he had a consensus while placing the content in the article. This certainly seems reasonable and in good faith. He actively discussed the content and then made a change off what he thought in good faith was a consensus. Others who were involved prior to the page being locked down for a month have since made changes to to disputed content, and in some cases without discussing the content or without a good faith belief that they had gotten a consensus. -Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 23:00, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by ChrisGualtieri[edit]Let's be clear - Cwobeel was not blocked for a "BLP violation" by introducing gross attacks on a biography, it was a violation of WP:BLP. This is shown by repeatedly reinserting the problematic material after its removal by two different editors, reinserting it after a month of protection, taking it to BLPN, reinserting it again and ignoring four different warnings and BLP policy about keeping the material out of the article until the problem was resolved at BLPN. Cwobeel was the editor who created the third BLPN discussion about this very issue and acknowledged WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE yet had already resorted to reinserting the material twice more. I personally approached Cwobeel and advised him of the policy.[33] Cwobeel was also informed of a proper close procedure by Serialjoepsycho. In particular I note Serialjoepsycho's comment Again, Cwobeel was blocked for violating BLP - not a BLP violation. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:20, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Binksternet[edit]The block on Cwobeel was made in error, as HJ Mitchell should have assessed the re-inserted text for possible BLP violations, which he acknowledges he did not.[34] Instead, he blocked Cwobeel for re-inserting the disputed text while discussion was still underway at BLPN. However, the disputed material had never been shown to be a BLP violation by ChrisGualtieri or Atsme; they presented a barrage of complaints about the material, but it was cited to high quality sources written by scholars, so they were off base in their complaints. After I came to the BLPN discussion to say that the sources were top notch, Cwobeel reworked the suggested text and got approval from everybody who commented, except ChrisGualtieri and Atsme. Thus it appeared that the material could no longer be considered a BLP violation, and WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE was satisfied. HJ Mitchell said that the block was made as an arbitration enforcement, as he had seen this AE request from ChrisGualtieri. HJ Mitchell had responded to ChrisGualtieri by noting that Cwobeel was prone to making BLP violations and had been blocked for them so many times that an escalation of sanctions was in order.[35] At no time did HJ Mitchell demonstrate his understanding that an actual violation of BLP had taken place, by commenting on the disputed text and references. Instead, he took the word of ChrisGualtieri at face value. It's ChrisGualtieri that is in error here, not Cwobeel. ChrisGualtieri filed a tendentious AE request to get the upper hand in a content dispute, after seeing that the BLPN discussion was not going his way. He lucked into HJ Mitchell who did not bother to examine the disputed text and references, a requirement of BLP enforcement requests. Should Cwobeel be very careful in BLP matters? Of course; Cwobeel had been very careful to propose new wording at BLPN, and to wait until multiple positive comments about it. Should Cwobeel be banned for an extended pattern of BLP violations? No, improvement has been seen, with Cwobeel working hard to follow procedure. This case is not sufficient to use against Cwobeel for further sanctions; instead it should boomerang onto ChrisGualtieri and Atsme for making false assertions of a BLP violation, and onto ChrisGualtieri for filing a tendentious AE request. Binksternet (talk) 15:42, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Cwobeel[edit]Statement by MrX[edit]I am uninvolved with editing the Steven Emerson article, but have commented about BLP concerns at WP:BLP/N. I have encountered both Cwobeel and ChrisGualtieri at various articles and talk pages, and respect both editors for their contributions. I don't favor one over the other. As I commented in the previous AE case, I think blocking Cwobeel was unwarranted and could have been handled a little better. First, Cwobeel made a good faith edit restoring content that he believed had reached a rough consensus for inclusion. As has been adequately demonstrated at WP:BLP/N, there was no BLP violation; there was merely a claim of such. Arbcom of 2008 identified issues with the implementation of the BLP policy. Almost seven years later there are a few editors who, in my opinion, use overly legalistic interpretation of the policy and filibustering to block content that they view as unfavorable to certain subjects, but not others. WP:BLP/N of the past several months contains numerous examples of this. Notably, WP:ACDS specifically instructs editors not to game the system, yet editors are rarely sanctioned for doing so. While it seems that HJ Mitchell acted within the bounds of discretion, the block was a little hasty and did not afford Cwobeel an opportunity to defend himself. I'm disappointed that I have to raise this again, having heard no explanation from HJ Mitchell when I mentioned it two days ago. WP:ACDS# states "Prior to placing sanctions that are likely to be controversial, administrators are advised to elicit the opinions of other administrators at AE." My observations suggest this is standard practice at AE, yet HJ Mitchell acted independently. Cwobeel was not the best candidate to evaluate consensus and restore his own favored content, but that's more of a technicality than a sanctionable offense. Cwobeel should be unblocked as promptly as he was blocked, and those involved should consider other options in the future. - MrX 02:23, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Collect[edit]I find the ArbCom stated position on BLPs to be binding here. As Wikipedia has a strong ability to actually do harm to living persons, it is essential that it specifically avoid doing so. This is not being "legalistic" , it is following non-negotiable policies, and goes back to Hillel the Elder and before. I rather think the sanction was reasonable, and with the acts still current, DS rules about BLPs required action. It is, moreover, true that adding material which has been suggested in any way to be violative of WP:BLP to be unwise, and I suggest there is strong reason to continue to hold that position. Collect (talk) 13:55, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Ubikwit[edit]While there is no doubt that the block was made in accord with policy, the corresponding countermeasures would seem to require some fine tuning, as recourse to BLP claims are rampant and often incorrect. Statement by Xenophrenic[edit]Now that Callanecc has fully protected the Emerson article for two months because of almost constant edit warring on the page for around a month (only 9 days, actually, since it was last fully protected, during which there appears to have been more article improvement than edit warring), I suggest that the block on Cwobeel is now redundant and not useful. That is IF, as HJ Mitchell says, the block was necessary to prevent the immediate disruption of the disputed material being reinstated. If, however, the present block on Cwobeel is meant to be punative, I would like to add my agreement with the many editors above who say that Cwobeel exercised an acceptable (albeit not perfect) level of care in interpreting community consensus at the BLP/N discussion he initiated, and that his edits were made in good faith and did not constitute a sanctionable offense. Xenophrenic (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Two kinds of pork[edit]@HJ Mitchell:, no one is saying you "sinned" here, and I apologize for calling your block unwarranted. I know admins get a lot of flack, and know that you know it comes with the territory, but admins are people too. That being said I would rephrase that to say the block was perhaps hasty. My first involvement with Cwobeel was acrimonious to say the least, but we have buried the hatchet and I consider our relationship to be friendly, even though we have at times stark difference of opinions. I have zero involvement with the Emerson article, and after spending the better part of two days of reviewing the talk-pages, BLPN, user pages, etc. I mostly endorse MrX and Binksternet's comments above. Being involved, Cwobeel should not have been the person to determine consensus, that is true. In my review I think his position that there was consensus appeared to be a reasonable conclusion. Would you consider this discussion a final warning should such a situation occur again and agree to unblock?Two kinds of porkMakin'Bacon 14:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Cwobeel[edit]
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Thargor Orlando
[edit]| Filing user is TBANed from the area so is not permitted to file request such as this, please email the arbitration clerks for behavioural issues in arbitration space (especially when you're topic banned). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 22:33, 11 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Thargor Orlando[edit]
I have no idea, and don’t know how to discover this.
Thargor Orlando writes at ARCA:
NOTE that the matter as ARCA is purely administrative, a clarification of the language of the standard Gamergate topic ban. My deportment is not at issue there and cannot conceivably affect that discussion. Thargor Orlando is seeking to expand my current unjustified and improper sanction through any means at hand. This idea of "conflict of interest" has been widely discussed at KiA in the past 24 hours as a means to effect my site ban; I forwarded two pertinent links to Gamaliel and HJ Mitchell last night. I have indeed been interviewed by a number of newspapers, magazines and broadcasters on the subject of Wikipedia and Gamergate. Expertise does not constitute a conflict of interest. Nor does providing a link to the subject whose discussion gave rise to the technical question before ARCA. If I did not link to my writings, Thargor Orlando would doubtless denounce my perfidious concealment of them. Thargor Orlando and his customary tag team bitterly and successfully edit-warred the inclusion this information on the talk page [38] [39] [40], as he systematically opposes including articles critical of Gamergate and supports including articles that excuse GamerGate harassment. Just days ago he was calling for sanctions against NorthBySouthBaranof because NorthBySouthBaranof had removed clearly BLP-violating sources from the talk page, arguing that the interests of the wiki were served by discussing even self-published sources listed on an attack wiki. Here, he wishes to surpress inconvenient information on any grounds available.
Discussion concerning Thargor Orlando[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Thargor Orlando[edit]This is simply a retaliatory measure for commenting on his clarification. It's further evidence that his contributions are a negative to the article space. I stand by my edits, as they're well within policy and well within the borders of the arbitration guidelines. Thargor Orlando (talk) 19:35, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Strongjam[edit]The statements are casting aspersions and should either be retracted or backed up with diffs. — Strongjam (talk) 19:40, 10 March 2015 (UTC) To be clear these two assertions needs some sort of evidence:
— Strongjam (talk) 20:22, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by DHeyward[edit]Specious and tendentious actions by MarkBernstein to bring a comment from ARCA to enforcement is beyond the pale. The background he gives is indicative of the exact complaint that Thargor Orlando lodged at ARCA. If anything, the result should be a boomerang preventing MarkBernstein from bring GamerGate issues to any noticeboard to go along with his topic ban. MarkBernstein is topic banned in this area and it appears he is exploiting process to keep discussing a topic he is prohibited from discussing on-wiki. His own personal attack above is far more egregious than anything said at ARCA. --DHeyward (talk) 20:46, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Thargor Orlando[edit]
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Theduinoelegy
[edit]| Blocked for one week for TBAN vio. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 22:29, 11 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Theduinoelegy[edit]
This was not an appeal of the users topic ban or an administrative process related to the user, it was mere disruptive point scoring behavior. That is a violation of the topic ban, in addition to being grossly uncivil. Hipocrite (talk) 16:52, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Theduinoelegy[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Theduinoelegy[edit]Statement by Tony Sidaway[edit]Also this, apparently after being notified of this request. This editor seems to think they can take a wikibreak for a few weeks then continue as before. Perhaps we should consider a long block and a direct instruction to stay away from the topic indefinitely. --TS 19:40, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Theduinoelegy[edit]
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Future Perfect at Sunrise
[edit]| There's no actual enforcement request in here. T. Canens (talk) 20:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Future Perfect at Sunrise[edit]
Discussion concerning USERNAME[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by USERNAME[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning USERNAME[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by User:Jaqeli
[edit]| Jaqueli granted an exemption to edit five articles otherwise covered by their topic ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:36, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
During this period of time I've contributed to some very good articles and created some quality ones. I can say I am really an experienced Wikipedian and I can assure you no past mistakes will take place anymore. My current TBAN though stops me to create many good Georgian articles because many of them have some kind of Armenian relations as well because of Georgian-Armenian relations are huge and deep and they count several millennia. I recognize my past mistakes of edit-warring and being a bit non-cooperative with Armenian Wikipedians which I no more will be like if you give me a chance again by lifting my current TBAN. I will engage with Armenian users and will cooperate in a calm manner in the interests of English Wikipedia. I believe having a Georgian Wikipedian like me also would greatly contribute as well. I by all means learned on my mistakes and I am ready to get back. I recognize all my past mistakes and now I am more aware how interacting with everyone is important. I will be cooperative and open for the common good of EnWiki. I have more than 20,000 edits, I am an experienced user registered back in 2011, I've made many contributions to English Wikipedia, I've made Good Articles, written many articles, expanded many etc. I have years of experience on English Wikipedia and I deserve a second chance and just because many Georgian articles can have some marginal Armenian connections I should be able to edit them as now my TBAN stops me in my contribution. There can be new information, pictures, charts, maps, sources etc. that can be added and because of my TBAN I cannot do so. I promise I will work with Armenian users and will be cooperative in every way possible. Right now because of my TBAN I cannot work on any major Georgian article because many may have marginal and minor Armenian connections for historical reasons as we are long-time neighbors. There's many I can do to contribute as I've done in the past. Admin Sandstein declined my appeal and I am bringing this appeal to other Admins who I hope will understand my request to cancel and lift this ban from me. I can do many good for the English Wikipedia as I've done in the past and me as a Georgian Wikipedian which aren't that many here can be of a great help in Georgia-related articles. I hope those other Admins who know me or remember me would give me one last chance and cancel this TBAN from me. Thank you. Jaqeli 07:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC) @Sandstein: I understand you are an experienced admin and you no more trust users like me especially when you see my past but please be assured that if this last chance is given I will definitely keep my word. If I do not keep my word I understand the fact that I will be banned forever and I will quit wikipedia. Please also see Georgian inscriptions list as I've told you in your TP I am working on those articles and created some in these days. You rightfully thought I disrupted the page but please be sure it is not the case. I've just made it a disambig page as there are many Georgian inscriptions to be added in the future which I will do certainly as I will work on them. @OccultZone: These 4 years or so I am mostly contributing to Georgia-related articles and because of my TBAN it is literally impossible for me to contribute into any major Georgia-related articles and that is why my activity was and is very low. @Richwales: I have a great respect for you as an admin and I fully understand that if this last chance is given to me I will no more screw with it and will keep my word. I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page and that will be the only way to handle such issues out. If I don't follow my word you personally can ban me from Wikipedia forever. @My very best wishes: I got this TBAN because of my aggressive and noncooperative attitude towards the origin section of Georgian scripts which I do recognize as a mistake which I made in the past. There is no other problems with script-related ones with me. I've made huge contributions and made GAs like script-related Georgian scripts article for example. There will be no problems from my side anymore as I fully understand the result that this can be my last chance so I will take any disputes to dispute resolution page for solving such issues that got my TBAN'd. So there is no reason to keep me out from script-related articles as such. Please also see the part concerning to Georgian inscriptions in the part of my reply to Admin Sandstein. @Kober: Thank you. I look forward working with you again and thanks for your support. Jaqeli 11:40, 8 March 2015 (UTC) @HJ Mitchell: I fully agree. Jaqeli 12:50, 8 March 2015 (UTC) @Richwales: The point of my appeal here is not the modification of my current TBAN but I want it to be lifted and canceled from me entirely. I don't want to have any restrictions editing Wikipedia. As I've said per your suggestion I'd take any disputes to dispute resolution page and I will no more edit war at all and if I won't keep my word for it I will be banned forever. I want to be entirely TBAN-free what will give me a chance to edit any article I will want to starting from Georgian language, scripts, inscriptions, archaeology, history, culture, religion etc. Jaqeli 22:02, 8 March 2015 (UTC) @Starship.paint: @My very best wishes: Thanks for your support. Jaqeli 22:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC) @Newyorkbrad: @Callanecc: There are lots of articles I'd edit so how can I list all of them. For example I'd edit Georgian scripts Asomtavruli, Nuskhuri, Mkhedruli sections to bring up new data and sources if I will have. I'd like to participate on its talk page as well because mostly all the concerns or questions on TP there are left unanswered and native Georgian like me can be of a huge help for Wiki itself. Another example can be Rhadamistus. I want to rewrite the article again to meet the GA status standards. I've made lots of contributions there as well though some more work should be done. Another can be Pharasmanes II of Iberia or David IV of Georgia. If I just wanted to replace or add a new picture there I can be banned again and that's just because these monarchs had Armenian wifes. There are many many articles and cannot really list them all here I hope you understand that. I just want to be TBAN-free and don't want to have any restrictions on me. Again as Richwales said, I do understand that if I will get back to edit-warring as I did in the past I will be banned forever from this site. Jaqeli 16:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC) @Callanecc: Right now I'd like to edit: Georgian scripts, Rhadamistus, Pharnavaz I of Iberia and Pharasmanes II of Iberia. Jaqeli 10:26, 12 March 2015 (UTC) @Richwales: I am not going to make any controversial edits to those articles. But if there will be any dispute I will bring it to the TP of the articles and will try to handle the problem out with other editors in a calm and cooperative manner. Please be sure that you won't ever see me edit warring. I will not edit war for sure. Jaqeli 17:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC) I recommend declining the appeal. I already lifted the ban once and had to reinstate it because of recurring problems. I am not convinced that Jaqeli can now competently edit in controversial topic areas. Please also refer to the discussion on my talk page about Jaqeli's prior appeal to me. Sandstein 08:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by OccultZone[edit]I have got Sandstein's UTP on my watchlist, I was in touch with the appeal. Apart from the points that Sandstein has noted,[43] I would say that the activity level of Jaqeli has gradually decreased since the reinstatement of topic ban and he has made about 291 edits since August 8, 2014. For showing that he can edit constructively and collaboratively in different areas, I believe that more activity is required. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 07:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
I've been in dispute with User:Jaqeli over certain areas of Georgia-related topics, but, in my case, he has been cooperative and, in fact, much helpful. Given the quality work he has done for Wikipedia, I would support lifting a topic ban and giving him the last chance to continue his full-time activity. --KoberTalk 15:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC) I've interacted with Jaqeli numerous times in the past. I'm not going to take a position, one way or the other, as to whether he deserves (or can handle) a relaxation or lifting of his current topic ban; however, I do think it's worth noting that his current ban effectively keeps him out of virtually all Georgia-related articles (since connections between Georgian and Armenian topics are pervasive). Since Jaqeli's primary (exclusive?) interest is in topics related to his home country of Georgia, it's not surprising to me at all that he has done very little editing here since his topic ban was imposed (for fear of being seen to have violated the ban if nothing else), so I don't think his low activity should be held against him. I am concerned about Jaqeli's past misbehaviour regarding edit warring, blocks, etc., and I do feel that if the community decides to give him one more chance, it should be made extremely clear to him that this will absolutely be his last chance — he must take any disputes promptly to accepted dispute resolution procedures and accept resolution outcomes gracefully, and he must accept that any future sanctions will almost certainly take the form of an indefinite / permanent site ban. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Kansas Bear[edit]Having edited in the Caucasus region, I have "interacted" with Jaqeli in a limited capacity. I believe he does do good work, however due to Georgia's location, the Caucasus is not an easy area to edit. I think, in the long run, Richwales idea would be best for Jaqeli. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:27, 8 March 2015 (UTC) After quickly looking at this, I think this topic ban could at least be changed and narrowed by limiting it to the subjects related to Caucasian alphabets. I think this is main POV of Jaqeli. Then his strange editing here discussed with Sandstein would be covered by the new restriction, but allowed him editing any Georgia-related subjects not related to the alphabets. In addition, banning someone from Georgian subjects on the basis of Armenia-Azerbaijan sanctions (both are different countries) might be a little questionable. My very best wishes (talk) 23:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
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Gerda Arendt
[edit]| User:Gerda Arendt is advised that their two comment limit, in discussions about Infoboxes, is a bright-line rule and that conduct like that exhibited at the Lawrence Olivier article's talk page is a breach of their restriction and will be sanctioned if repeated. User:SchroCat is reminded that anyone requesting enforcement who comes with unclean hands runs the risk of their request being sanctioned themselves. They are also advised that implying misconduct on the part of editors like User:Gerda Arendt who are restricted from replying/responding to such accusations may be seen as misconduct itself. User:Francis Schonken is warned for filing a vexatious request at WP:AE. They are also cautioned that further abuse of process or attempts to harass other editors will incur sanctions.--Cailil talk |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Gerda Arendt[edit]
(all diffs are edits by Gerda Arendt:)
Discussed the inclusion of the infobox in the Frédéric Chopin article three or four times, on at least two talk pages. I have brought to Gerda's attention before (e.g. " ... please stop discussing individual article's infobox inclusions on various pages not directly connected to the article's talk page (e.g. here) as it are "comments in discussing the inclusion or exclusion of an infobox on a given article" per Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Gerda Arendt restricted. I think I explained this before." [44]) that probably the discussions *on individual articles* at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Infobox (e.g. [45]) are to be seen as separate counts in the ArbCom remedy cited above, and am now submitting it here to let others decide.
[46] --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC) Discussion concerning Gerda Arendt[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Gerda Arendt[edit]Wir danken dir, Gott, wir danken dir, BWV 29, GA as of today, thank you, Dr. Blofeld, but only 14 of 31 GAs in Classical compositions are by me ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:55, 10 March 2015 (UTC) @SchroCat: I repeat my simple request of yesterday, which was not about infoboxes:
Please go to the new user's talk and explain why you reverted their third edit in this Wikipedia. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 10 March 2015 (UTC) The number of emails I found in my archive as sent to SchroCat is 2. I am willing to publish them completely with the exception of one too personal line about another editor. Quoting from the first, sent 4 March 2015 in response to one from him:
What can we do? I can see now how pointy my second email was because the subject was "laugh". I should have known that one has to stay seriuz in infobox matters. I envy a bit people who can say: I've never taken part in the infobox wars. The not taking part in them is one of my favorite parts of Wikipedia - I feel like the nurse on the battleground and will not leave ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 11 March 2015 (UTC) @T. Canens: You brought up a very interesting question: what the restriction is meant to be. I confess that I have lived with it for a while now, and generally find it helpful to walk away after two comments (example pictured), but why I was restricted I still don't know and stopped asking. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:35, 13 March 2015 (UTC) I think all diffs show that I am aware of the restriction and don't need a reminder ;) - I am rather proud of having gained the status of the most severely restricted person in the infobox wars without ever having been in an edit war, - not easy ;) - I am happy that an article where my addition of an infobox has been regarded as disruptive (I would have said premature) in 2013 received one today. Thank you, Voceditenore! - I am not interested in boomerang actions, but would be helped if the questionable closing of a discussion on Chopin could be evaluated by independent minds. Votes were simply counted, regardless of the same person accepting or even installing a compromise later. I think a revert and asking who would accept the compromise might be a good idea. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Andy Mabbett[edit]
We saw in the recent review of the infobox case how some editors use existing sanctions to harass the affected editors. Is this another case of the same thing? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC) Postscript: The 15 March edit consists solely of Gerda adding Re "Main editors": It is stated here, in relation to debates about whether an article should include an infobox, that " Statement by SchroCat[edit]I have had reason to ask Gerda to refrain from commenting on my talk page recently (and to stop emailing me about IBs.) While Chopin may or may not be a valid matter, the three comments in Talk:Laurence Olivier#Infobox ([47], [48] and [49]) are a breach. Although I don't think the related comment on my talk page is relevant, that on Ian Rose's page may be a fourth. I haven't done a search of the user's edit history to see if there are any further comments elsewhere. In relation to the recent William Burges discussion, although Gerda kept to two comments on the talk page ([50] and [51]), this third comment is about the IB, and is borderline (or underhand) canvassing. This (fourth) is also about the Burges IB, as is this (fifth) and this (sixth). To crown it all, and where I think she really has overstepped the mark into borderline harassment, I was not happy to receive an email from her trying to discuss the Burges IB. In relation to a different IB matter, I recieved this (which is about a user who added an infobox that I removed), and an email containing a rather pointy and incorrect message, again about infoboxes. As you can see from the thread on my talk page, I have had to ask Gerda not to post on my talk page, or email me about IBs (although why I should have to I really don't know). I think there is enough here that ArbCom should look a little more closely about this user's interaction with regard to infobox discussions.– SchroCat (talk) 15:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Rich Farmbrough[edit]Two of the Olivier comments are not about the inclusion or exclusion of that infobox at all, but the somewhat odd premise being promoted that the decision is up to the "main editors" of the article. The last one, be it noted, is in response to a direct allegation of WP:OWN by ShroCat. It is disappointing to see this enforcement request being brought by Frances on clearly spurious grounds. It is also disappointing to see SchroCat's statement including the Olivier diffs. Making WP:OWN (or any other) accusations against an editor you know cannot respond, is poor form. If the intent was to bait Gerda into a response it is even worse. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC). Statement by Ritchie333[edit]Notwithstanding Gerda's "go ahead punk, make my day" remark, the three comments in a row were made over a week ago and the debate came to a natural end. There doesn't seem to be anything that requires actively enforcing. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 23:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Collect[edit]Try as I might, I see no conceivable violation of her restriction. Even counting a !vote as being a "comment" which I find a tad iffy. Calling a font-colour change a "comment" is not impressive. Collect (talk) 13:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Ched[edit]I am glad to see that "boomerang" has been mentioned. I've always wondered how Arbcom managed to restrict 2 editors on the pro-infobox side, and yet only remind those removing them. Especially given that Gerda had never been blocked, and multiple members of the exclusive "composer" group have multiple blocks for edit warring. In fact, about the only "warnings" I can recall before the 2013 case involved editors removing infoboxes with "do not revert MY edit". Now I have no doubt that many of said composer group would like nothing better than to be rid of Gerda and the scandalous idea of having an infobox in any of "their" articles, but I pesky old WP:Local consensus thing has been a stumbling block in so many efforts. The (very) recent efforts to remove Pigsonthewing from all things infobox resulted in there actually being fewer restrictions in his particular case. I know that Gerda won't "appeal" the 2013 case, so I'll skip that paragraph. The hounding and harassment that has come from a few select members of that composer group does indeed need to be considered though. And while I'm content to sit up here, I ask the reviewing admins to consider this. — Ched : ? 21:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Atsme[edit]I see no evidence that indicates Gerda is in violation. I agree with a lot of what Ched described, although I have not researched the history to that extent. However, based on what was presented here, my conclusion is zilch - nada - and I don't think there is anything I've overlooked. Atsme☯Consult 00:06, 14 March 2015 (UTC) Suggestion by Thryduulf[edit]@Cailil:. I'm commenting here as a semi-involved admin not as an arbitrator as I'm recused from the infoboxes topic.
I would suggest a slight change to the final sentence of your proposal: "They are also cautioned that further abuse of process or attempts to harass Given that this sentence is directed at Francis Schonken including his name is redundant, and my change makes it clear that the problem with the behaviour is that it is harassment not that the target is Gerda (i.e. it's not OK to harass somebody else instead). Thryduulf (talk) 11:06, 16 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Gerda Arendt[edit]
So closed--Cailil talk
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DHeyward
[edit]| Multi-way interaction ban imposed by Gamaliel. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:09, 14 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning DHeyward[edit]
I have no idea
should be obvious
DHeyward takes me to task:
But of course my complaint is neither specious nor tendentious. I made a technical inquiry at ARCA regarding an obscurity in their recent decision, explaining why I needed this clarification and requesting Arbcom to clarify their intent. The response has been a coordinated outpouring of vituperation directed at me and urging my immediate banishment. DHeyward proceeds to lecture Gamaliel on the history of my topic ban, perhaps forgetting that Gamaliel started this entire sorry episode. I am confident that Gamaliel understands every nook and cranny by now. But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there. DHeyward tars me with making a personal attack on Thargor Orlando at Arbitration Enforcement, but of course Arbitration Enforcement concerns enforcement actions against editors. Editorial misbehavior is the essence of complaints at WP:AE; in contrast, the ARCA discussion did not concern editorial behavior of any kind. DHeyward has, of course, been an avid proponent of WP:CPUSH and WP:FLAT arguments at Gamergate and related pages. His arguments (if these be arguments) here reflect that, and they should be familiar to administrators and indeed to most who are active there. As time is short, I simply allude to them here. As some argue that my topic ban extends, or should extend, or should immediately be extended, to preclude remedy, I'm filing this without further delay. I apologize to overworked administrators.
Literary sidenote: DHeyward is now all aflutter over a literary allusion on my talk page. It’s Julius Caesar III.1.278-290: “Domestic fury and fierce civil strife...” Relax folks. (and good grief!) MarkBernstein (talk) 22:37, 10 March 2015 (UTC) I completely endorse Gamaliel’s proposal, provided related proposals I have discussed with Gamaliel and with HJ Mitchell are honored as well, as I am confident they will be. With regard to offsite planning: I sent two administrators two offsite links to discussions of proposed attacks on my integrity, twelve hours before those attacks appeared for the first time on-wiki. I have also sent a separate forum post, claiming to have been written by a recently banned editor, explaining how to exploit Wikipedia policy along these very lines. The current discussion stems from a news story -- one of many recent news stories -- reporting on the way Gamergate supporters have colluded in their use of Wikipedia. Individual Wikipedians may regret these news stories and find them embarrassing, but I did not expect to be faulted for mentioning here what reporters throughout the world consider to be thoroughly established. (This issue has clear implications for the efficacy of Gamaliel’s proposal, obviously. I merely draw attention to this so Gamaliel or others may consider whether new policy may be needed to address this when it arises in some future dispute among other parties.) I'd like to remind people one last time that this is not merely a content dispute about fringe theories or inbox footnotes: real people are being harassed and actual careers are being destroyed while Wikipedia is perverted. I have done what I could to stop it; I have been assured that it will be stopped; in the long run, I am confident that sufficient eyes outside Wikipedia have been brought to bear on this area of the project that either Wikipedia will learn to protect the victims or it will suffer even greater consequences. I should like few things better, in fact, than to comply with Gamaliel’s excellent suggestion. MarkBernstein (talk) 14:13, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning DHeyward[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by DHeyward[edit]Another tendentious and pointy request by MarkBernstein. Considering he has mulitple discussions going on at AE, ANI and ARBCA, I think it's time we need to discuss a site ban for MarkBernstein or at least a long block. --DHeyward (talk) 22:08, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
It appears that MarkBernstein is now here to wreak "Havoc" on the community[58] with these filings. That along with his history of WP:NOTHERE and it may be time to show him the door. Literary sidenote, the quote of 'havoc' in Shakespeare only reinforces WP:NOTHERE and WP:BATTLEGROUND, not alleviate it. --DHeyward (talk) 22:24, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Gamaliel Please post where I have done anything you have alleged. To be specific, MarkBernstein has filed 2 AE requests, 1 ARBCA request and 1 ANI request as well as posting to Jimbo's talk page since his topic ban. I am not sure where you are getting the impression that this anything more than a 1 sided barrage of filings and it affects more than just THargor Orlando and me. --DHeyward (talk) 00:10, 11 March 2015 (UTC) Ched I can say without reservation that Gamaliel - as I've already been acting in the way you propose and haven't brought any complaints about MarkBernstein to any boards or even discussed it on article talk pages. I brought his comments directly to two uninvolved admins who both agreed they were not civil and both took action. I would not have participated here if I wasn't called to do so but I can agree not to bring any issues to noticeboards as that is what I've already been doing. There is no need for a sanction since the behavior doesn't really exist and it appears this complaint should be closed the same as the one above it. BTW, if you are in possession of "offsite links", please send them. I categorically deny any involvement with any offsite groups that are targeting MarkBernstein or anyone else. --DHeyward (talk) 20:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC) This AE request is predicated on the one above it which was closed. Not sure how this one is still valid if the other is not. --DHeyward (talk) 22:46, 11 March 2015 (UTC) Gamaliel has invoked a sanction without any evidence that the behavior he is trying to stop ever happened. He cited comments made on this AE request as being problemtic. I ask that he reverse this as MarkBernstein had no standing to bring a complaint. If Gamaliel could cite where I violated anything related to his topic ban, he should do so. The fact is that I brought MB's behavior to two neutral admins even before Gamaliel requested. I didn't discuss it with MarkBernstein or engage him in any way except in arbitrtation space. Please show a problematic encounter where I did something improper. Please note that Bernstein is again at AE where he repeated the comment that led to his topic ban. Is that editor now also subject to a sanction? They did more official filing than I did. There simply is no justification for this. I am happy to abide by Gamaliels request on a gentlemans agreement but having it logged as wrongdoing I will not stand for. Gamaliel's sanction would not change a single thing that I did or what happened to MarkBernstein or the subsequent issues he created for himself and I will be forced to challenge this rather specious argument that the persons named in an AE request are responsible for the filing. EdJohnston is correct. Gamaliel didn't attribute the context of the remarks he cited or the author and he fails to state that the only editor bringing stuff to noticeboards is MarkBernstein. I did not file anything or make comments in article or user space, just here. --DHeyward (talk) 18:39, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Liz I didn't file an AE request for this (or ANI or any other drama board). Why would you endorse a sanction without a single diff? We were dragged here by MarkBernstein who filed an ARBCA, ANI and 2 AE requests. All of Gamaliels quotes are from responding to MB (and not properly attributed or given in context). MB is currently named in a 3rd AE request but Gamaliel hasn't proposed an IBAN for NE Ent. --DHeyward (talk) 00:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by MONGO[edit]I do not see a personal attack. I see a diff that merely states an observation. A personal attack might be to call someone an asshole or along those lines.--MONGO 22:10, 10 March 2015 (UTC) One of the worst arbcom closures appears to be manifesting itself as one of the worst decisions I have ever seen at arbitration enforcement. How ridiculous that DHeyward might face a topic ban for merely pointing out a basic observation of fact. It's way past time to site ban Bernstein and if his filing this AE complaint, which is only the latest violation of his own topic ban, is not enough reason to throw this frivolous nonsense in the gutter then all the admins clamoring for a topic ban for DHeyward need to get their heads examined.--MONGO 01:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Thargor Orlando[edit]More retaliatory behavior. Topic ban him and extend the ban to seeking sanctions against other editors at this point. Why are we continuing to tolerate this behavior? Thargor Orlando (talk) 22:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Starship.paint[edit]@Ched: and @Gamaliel: - it appears that you have missed this statement made by MarkBernstein in this very filing. [60] But DHeyward also understands every nook and cranny, as this last episode was of his contrivance -- carefully planned offsite and also celebrated there. This is not the first time, MarkBernstein, without evidence, accuses established editors of colluding offsite. Historical evidence: [61] [62] [63] [64] You would consider this a "mild" statement, Gamaliel? I think this behaviour is worse than anything DHeyward or Thargor Orlando have produced, therefore I question the equal punishments. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 01:12, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by EvergreenFir[edit]This is becoming tendentious. There is no personal attack. DHeyward wasn't the nicest, but stated his opinion. If a clerk thought it was a personal attack, they could have removed it. Compared to the conduct issues brought up in the GGTF case, for example, DHeyward's comments are downright pleasant. This on top of the previous request are making my lose my good faith in Mark. Dismiss this request. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Tony Sidaway[edit]In view of the kind of conduct problems we're seeing here, I agree with Gamaliel's proposed solution. The involved editors should all concentrate on the editing, and not continue this attempt to conduct a kind of warfare using Wikipedia. They've all been asked to drop the stick in the recent past. These continuing incidents, while not necessarily rising to the level we'd normally sanction, have no place on Wikipedia. This proposal goes to the heart of the problems identified in the arbitration case. --TS 13:30, 11 March 2015 (UTC) NE Ent[edit]Gamaliel solution: +1. NE Ent 23:52, 11 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by GoldenRing[edit]A weighty matter, come behold, With apologies to DHeyward, for putting one or two words in his mouth, and to the good Doctor for taking one or two out of his. GoldenRing (talk) 00:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Strongjam[edit]
— Strongjam (talk) 00:41, 12 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Rhoark[edit]I think it would be a mistake to proceed on the basis of assuming culpability on the part of anyone except MarkBernstein. All DHeyward or ThargorOrlando stand accused of is calling a spade a spade, whereas the number of times MarkBernstein has cast aspersions or filed frivolous motions and been extended more WP:ROPE defies counting. Rhoark (talk) 00:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by EncyclopediaBob[edit]If the intent is to limit interaction between Mark and these users in the Gamergate space, and Mark is already topic banned making interaction impossible, how can we consider topic banning these users "preventative"? Until Mark's ban expires or is reversed there's no benefit to eliminating these editors from the space even if one could find cause. —EncyclopediaBob (talk) 01:44, 12 March 2015 (UTC) I haven't checked every diff and every aspect of the disputants' arguments. I'm not advocating a topic or site ban for anyone. Just as an editor who is peripherally (marginally!) involved in editing in the Gamergate controversy area, I am tired of continually seeing complaints involving editors working in these articles brought to AE and I'm sure that admins who frequent this forum are tired of seeing them as well. While some cases have had merit and topic bans were justified, the growing number of editors who have received topic bans through proceedings at this board and the increasing reliance on AE as a way to resolve interaction disputes is worrisome. From what I've seen, editors on both sides of this topic have filed complaints here and the only action I would recommend is an admonishment to only bring serious infringements of WP:BLP to this board. I endorse Gamaliel's proposal and suggest it might be a model in cases where disputants file repeated cases against each other. Liz Read! Talk! 21:12, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning DHeyward[edit]
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NorthBySouthBaranof
[edit]| No action on this occasion due to a good-faith misunderstanding, but those edits are very much within the scope of the topic ban and any future such edits will likely result in a block. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:04, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning NorthBySouthBaranof[edit]
All edits concern Lena Dunham, the subject of several of gender-related controversies:
User:NorthBySouthBaranof continually toes the line of his topic ban [65] [66] [67] [68] [69] [70] [71] [72] now stepping far over.
He's been advised several times by respected editors to disengage but maintains he will "not be silenced and intimidated" [75] [76] [77] despite the topic ban, as his most recent edits prove. Given the ineffectiveness of the topic ban I suggest a temporary site ban to prevent future violations, and a reversion of the article to its previous state. @NorthBySouthBaranof: I'd suggest that notifying you personally and civilly not once but twice over several weeks before bringing this request is exactly the opposite of "stir[ring] up drama". @Bishonen: @Konveyor Belt: I specifically limited my diffs to feminism (and its opposition) and campus rape, which the commenting arbs all agree [78] is within the scope of the DS. I genuinely appreciate your assumption of good faith but I didn't intend to stretch the scope whatsoever. Even narrowly construed I believe these edits fall within it. And I find it difficult to take NorthBySouthBaranof's incredulity that Gamergate sanctions apply to this article sincerely, when the discussion on his talk page prompted by my post last month [79] suggested it with reasonable arguments, and the arbs comments in the above clarification request just yesterday (a discussion in which NorthBySouthBaranof participated) [80] removed any doubt. —EncyclopediaBob (talk) 21:27, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning NorthBySouthBaranof[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof[edit]The article in question is the biography of a notable woman. I have edited the article to conform with basic policies, and intend to continue to expand the biography in keeping with basic policies. It is notable that I have identified at least one user with a demonstrated vendetta against the article subject, and who has expressed a continued desire to "fix" Dunham's article in a negative manner. The reporting user is a single-purpose account with eight substantive articlespace contributions but a vast array of talk-page edits, noticeboard postings and general support of Gamergate-related subjects, leaping directly into encyclopedia politics from the minute they arrived. I submit that the reporting user is not here to build an encyclopedia, but rather to stir up drama and conflict. The statements of mine they cite re "disengagement" have nothing to do with the article in question — rather, they have to do with the subject of Gamergate. It is demonstrable that I have disengaged from Gamergate. Lena Dunham's article has absolutely nothing to do with Gamergate. The only way in which this possibly could be said to relate to the topic ban is that Lena Dunham is a woman who has written about being a victim of sexual assault. Does ArbCom intend for my topic ban to encompass every woman or man who has ever written about sexual assault, or been the victim of sexual assault, or reported on sexual assault, or discussed sexual assault? Is that truly the case? If so, let ArbCom be clear that for alleged transgressions on an article about a video game controversy, it intends for me to be indefinitely prohibited from editing a vast array of articles about or relating to women (and men). If that is the case, you need to be entirely and thoroughly clear that the Wikipedia Arbitration Committee believes anyone who has ever been sexually assaulted, written about sexual assault, reported on sexual assault, prosecuted sexual assault, studied sexual assault, portrayed a victim of sexual assault on stage or screen, etc. etc. etc. has willingly or unwillingly become part of a "gender-related controversy." The topic ban would thus extend from The Vagina Monologues to Oprah Winfrey, A Time to Kill (1996 film) to Lady Gaga, Teri Hatcher to Tyler Perry, Nevada Barr to the University of Idaho. I submit that such is absurdly overbroad, unfairly unenforceable and wholly unnecessary to the purpose of the Gamergate controversy arbitration case.
Statement by Konveyor Belt (uninvolved)[edit]@NBSB: You were tbanned under the standard tban as defined in the case as As stated in MarkBernstein's ARCA request by the arbs, sexual assault is pretty clearly a gender related area. Nobody, including the ArbCom, needs to define that. The very definition of sexual assault and the resulting controversies prove that pretty well. And per C, Lena Dunham is thus someone associated with a gender-related dispute or controversy. KonveyorBelt 18:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom[edit]Contrary to common sense it appears the ArbCom is going all in on their "we value the semblance of non-disruption and editors who are the target of coordinated outside disruption need to be purged" . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:13, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Cailil[edit]Sorry Bish but you're wrong on this one. The Lena Dunham diffs are topic ban violations. The mix of BLP, controversy and gender issues is clearly there[81][82]. Anyone banned under ARBGG's ruling should not be making these kinds of edits--Cailil talk 22:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Rhoark[edit]NorthBySouthBaranof is a valuable defender of innocent people from BLP violations; however, in their zeal they seem to have good faith difficulty interpreting the terms of their topic ban. The purpose of the broad scope of the ban is to prevent the same behavioral issues from being exported to new pages. That is exactly what has happened here, in terms of a zeal for BLP causing unwillingness to recognize other points of view, along with blanking discussions in a way not justified by WP:BLPTALK[83]. I'm in favor of extending WP:ROPE with the understanding that for BLP issues where there's a shred of doubt whether WP:BANEX applies NorthBySouth will bring it to [[84]] or other appropriate avenues. Rhoark (talk) 23:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (anonymous)[edit]I can find very little of substance in NorthBySouthBaranof's response here, nor those of the people defending him. The filer's contribution history is not relevant to the truth of the claims; and anyway would anyone really be satisfied if the motion were to be re-opened by someone else? Seems to me like we all know how that sort of thing usually goes - "stop forum-shopping"; "this repeated action is harassment" etc. As for the WP:NOTHERE charge, I can hardly imagine an act which contributes more to Wikipedia than ensuring that disruptive editors are justly sanctioned. (Well, one could directly clean up the mess, but that's a little harder to do when it's caused by a more established editor than the one noticing the problem.) It ought to be obvious, to anyone who has been paying attention, how Lena Dunham is connected to gender-based controversy. Her book specifically relates her experiences as a woman; she has been accused of sexual abuse - an accusation which is clearly controversial and which many believe would be treated differently if she were a man; and her allegation of sexual assault apparently led to a witch-hunt of an innocent man - again seen by many as a men's rights issue. (I also note here that Wikipedia appears to have an interesting habit of consistently identifying "conservative" sources as such, while not applying the tag "liberal" similarly; and this is clearly evident in the case of the Lena Dunham article. Of course I do not mean to bring a content dispute here, but it's meaningful context - the informed observer will note a very strong tendency, in gender-related controversies, for "feminists" to be identified with liberalism and "MRAs" with conservatism, regardless of the accuracy of those statements.) Arbcom's decision was clear, and deliberate. The prohibition on "gender-related controversy, broadly construed" is certainly and obviously not meant to apply to all individuals connected to sexual assault claims. However, it strains credulity to imagine that NorthBySouthBaranof honestly cannot see how Lena Dunham is not "just another victim" in this regard. There is nothing controversial about Oprah Winfrey's speaking out about being molested as a child, and it was nearly 3 decades ago. Lena Dunham's book is current, and there is plenty of plainly evident controversy. Regarding defenders, I'm especially bothered by the apparent lack of civility on @TheRedPenOfDoom:'s part. Referring to "purges" and "superior orders" seems like rather deliberately constructed imagery. But anyway, these vague claims of 76.64.12.157 (talk) 02:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by coldacid[edit]Of the linked, non-stale diffs provided by the complainant, only one does not directly deal with sexual controversy in the Lena Dunham article. It's honestly baffling to me that anyone would not consider them such. We've already gone over all this in WP:ARCA regarding GG discretionary sanctions and campus rape versus the scope of the GG topic ban. Were the edits purely deletionary with regard to possible BLP violations, then they would fall under WP:BANEX but from what I observed, there is actual content editing beyond simply removing BLP vios in those diffs. Given the opinions from some of the admins below and from the ARCA discussion, I believe NBSB should be formally warned, at a minimum, that this behaviour is a violation of his topic ban. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 01:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning NorthBySouthBaranof[edit]
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MarkBernstein
[edit]| Misconduct on arbitration pages is, and always has been, a matter for the clerks, not for AE. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:08, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning MarkBernstein[edit]
Dreadstar: [86] "Due to your continued comments about other editors [87], I'm imposing upon you a 90-day ban on all edits about, and all pages related to, (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed per Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate."
Discussion concerning MarkBernstein[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by MarkBernstein[edit]Great Caesar’s Ghost! Shades of Kafka, yes, but also Lewis Carroll, Gilbert and Sullivan, and Catch-22! This affair has more nuttiness than a candy factory in a hurricane. Let’s look briefly at how we got into this fine mess, and how we might still get out. 1. Last Sunday at the Gamergate Talk page, we were discussing a recent article about collusive editing at the Gamergate page. In the course of that discussion, I made an indirect and general allusion to -- wait for it! -- collusive editing at the Gamergate page. 2. This topic has been reported in newspapers, studied in seminars and scholarly journals, and was recently discussed (by my Congresswoman, Katherine Clark D-MA) on the floor of the US House of Representatives. If uncivil it be, the planet is awash in incivility. 3. @Dreadstar: topic-banned me for alluding to this subject, under Gamergate Discretionary Sanctions. I was surprised -- but little surprises me these days when it comes to Wikipedia. (Little did I know how strange things would shortly grow.)
4. A few minutes before, I had told an activist who had written to me that I was willing keep an eye on [Campus_Rape] and associated pages. Now, @NorthBySouthBaranof:, who is topic banned under Discretionary Sanctions, had been criticized for editing the page of comedian Lena Dunham, who is probably not the first person who springs to mind when you think of GamerGate, nor even the hundred and first. Does Campus Rape fall under GamerGate sanctions? When in doubt, ask! I sent a quick email query to @Dreadstar: and to three other admins, posing this conundrum and explaining why I was asking. 5. Not having received a reply, but being engaged on my own talk page, I repeated the query there. Shortly afterward, I received a string of angry and threatening messages from Dreadstar, the last calling me a "motherfucker." (Believe me, I was absolutely astonished! What on earth could have provoked this?)
6. Unfortunately, the Motherfucker Memo failed to indicate whether or not the topic ban applied to Campus Rape. Not receiving any guidance overnight or the following morning, I wondered, “whom might I ask?” It turns out that the Arbitration Committee has established a page, Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment (ARCA), where one may request clarification! Seeking clarity, I did, asking what I had asked before:
The Arbitration Committee proceeded to discuss the matter, and as far as I know they continue to do so. I may not agree with their line of reasoning, but they have not asked for my opinion and I have not offered it: I simply asked what they intended. 7. Some third parties did express opinions of various sorts on various topics. A number expressed great displeasure with me and urged that I be sternly punished. I responded -- as people frequently do at ARCA -- in my own area with one or two temperate observations, reminding all that (a) the question at hand was what Arbcom meant to say, to which anything I might have done or said or any funny faces I might have made is perfectly irrelevant, and (b) that one proposal, put forth by an administrator, might prove unworkable in ways that are not immediately apparent. Again, this is entirely reasonable, while the denigration of my abilities, intentions, and character heaped on my head were entirely out of place
8. It is this last issue -- my suggesting that @Masem:’s proposal to vary the ambit of Discretionary Sanctions from person to person would prove both unjust and impractical -- it is this that arouses Ent’s wrath and brings us here. (I know -- you can’t make this stuff up!)
9. NEEnt also raises the question of my linking to my writing on Wikipedia from time to time, citing WP:SPAMSITES. This is silly. First, “Infamous” and its successors have been read by about 120,000 people now. They’ve been quoted in newspapers with an aggregate circulation of many millions of readers. Every tech journalist in the world is aware of the story now. The flow of traffic from an obscure inquiry page in Wikipedia is trivial; cui bono? It might also be remembered that I’ve done a bit of research in writing with links. After four dozen research papers, a writing guide that gets reprinted in high school primers, a book and several book chapters about links, linking becomes a habit. Finally: remember that I was addressing ARBCOM, people whom I’ve both denounced and ridiculed. In such circumstances, my mother always urged me to lay the bad news out clearly, rather than to hope no one has noticed.
10. I do regret whatever disruption was caused by the original transgression:
No doubt this was a very wicked thing to say, though I’m not sure how. It might violate of WP:MOMHESLOOKINGATMEFUNNY, except that's not a thing. There are worse things: One of those worse things is outing -- the real thing, not the Wikipedia thing. It can ruin careers and cost lives. This is not a mere content dispute or a fight about infoboxes. Let’s not lose track of that. 11. For all my faults, I've been a pretty useful Wikipedian. Unlikely as it seems, I might still prove useful to the project if you can find the will to listen to some of my suggestions -- or if you can contrive suggestions of your own that you can convince me are superior. Statement by Rhoark[edit]It would be Kafkaesque to punish violation of a tban made in the process of seeking clarification on the tban through the appropriate venue. Rhoark (talk) 02:29, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by (anonymous)[edit]@Rhoark: As far as I can tell, the cited diff wouldn't be affected by the clarification being sought, and there's no reason to suppose that MarkBernstein didn't know any better. MarkBernstein's outside link directly discusses Gamergate, while the ARCA is about whether "campus rape" fits under "gender related controversy". This is far from the first time he's dropped links to his blog articles on Wikipedia. There would be nothing Kafkaesque about charging someone with a crime in the middle of an ongoing trial, if they actually flagrantly committed a crime right in the courtroom. 76.64.12.157 (talk) 02:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Hipocrite[edit]A little confused here. NE Ent appeared to remove MB's topic ban here. Also, if MB's topic ban includes requests for clarification, how is he supposed to understand his topic ban (which, by the way, no longer exists)? Hipocrite (talk) 02:52, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Starship.paint[edit]@Hipocrite: - NE Ent closed that discussion with (per OP request). Seeing that the OP is MarkBernstein, it would seem ridiculous if NE Ent had lifted MarkBernstein's topic ban directly due to MarkBernstein's request? Perhaps the topic closure was done per MarkBernstein's request. Nevertheless, would appreciate @NE Ent: to comment on this. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
@Hipocrite and @Rhoark: - by all means, MarkBernstein is within his means to clarify his ban at ARCA, but such clarification did not need blatant advertising of his own blog discussing GamerGate. starship.paint ~ ¡Olé! 03:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by coldacid[edit]Probably foolish to have included that link in his ARCA request, but as far as I know you're allowed to say or link anything short of out-and-out libellous or threatening statements. Besides, this is right in front of the arbs themselves; if MarkBernstein's putting out enough rope to hang himself, ArbCom can set him on the gallows themselves. I'd suggest just close this one. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 01:17, 14 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning MarkBernstein[edit]
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