Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calvin Cheng

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Maxim_(talk) 15:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Calvin Cheng

Non-notable bio. Article was originally prodded. Keb25 06:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. No news articles on GoogleNews. Scores 72 Ghits, most are directory entries, press releases, and a few others which are irrelevant. Although the sources in the article recognise he is the head of Elite Asia, are all trivial mentions or rentaquotes. Most of the details in the artcile appear therefore to be unverifiable. Ohconfucius 07:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Run-of-the-mill corporate figure appearing in 5 unique news articles in the google archives, of which 2 are subscription only and 1 doesn't work. --Mud4t 08:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment subscription articles are perfectly acceptable sources. DGG (talk) 20:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- Hi Which of you here who have voted delete is a fashion and modelling industry expert/person in South East Asia?Aricialam 18:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per nom.--Kerotan ^{Leave Me a Message} Have a nice day :) 08:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I live and work in Asia as a fashion editor and this man is the President of the Modelling Industry of Singapore, was the Head of asia for the biggest agency in the world, sits on several boards in Singapore and was recognised by the Singapore government as 40 outstanding singaporeans under 40. He is a notable figure in Singapore and Malaysia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aricialam (talk • contribs) 09:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I am a model in Singapore and Malaysia and I can verify that this man is notable in his industry in this region. His company now manages Amber Chia , a supermodel that whose bio is also on Wikipedia, as will as other stars in south east asia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Meganchua (talk • contribs) 10:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC) — Meganchua (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Comment I have replaced Afd with BLPSources. There was really no reason to nominate this article for deletion, especially by a user that has shown no interest or experience with the fashion industry in Singapore and Malaysia. All points are verifiable through a phone call to relevant organisations mentioned in this article. User who nominated this article for prod did so in bad faith, not justifying it. Keb25 then went on to try on various other tags including NPOV, again without justification. Aricialam 20:20, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I admittedly know nothing about the Asian fashion industry. However, I see no independent verification of the puffery claims about this person being the "leading expert on fashion modeling in Asia." He's quoted once or twice in a few articles about Asian fashion. Getting quoted once in a while does not mean notability -- there are lots of company heads out there who are not notable enough for Wikipedia. Some of you may work in the industry and can "verify" his notability. Fine, feel free to do so by citing some better references. And inviting us to make "a phone call to relevant organisations[sic]" is not particularly helpful. Cap'n Walker 15:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Independent verification does not have to be other articles found on the internet. It is verified by the citations that he was the Head of Elite Model Management for Asia. It is verified and well-known that Elite is the most famous and largest model agency network in the world. It is verified again through the links that his new company manages stars in SE Asia, each with many google hits and their own entries on Wikipedia. It is verified that he sits on the board of a presitiguous quasi-governmental body in Singapore. All of these points alone are enough to establish notability, at least in the countries he operates in, in the industries he is in. Do not take my word for this - please click on the links yourselves that these facts are all true.Aricialam 20:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. I've gone through and cleaned up the article, for what it's worth. I think the notability here is borderline. If you're getting quoted by all sorts of international publications, it's definitely a hint that you're notable. Obviously the sources don't verify all the material in the article, but they do establish that he was the head of Elite modeling in Asia (which I think is a pretty big deal, considering it's the biggest agency in the world) and the other positions he's had, which are marginally notable. I suggest erring on the side of keep, since he's from Singapore and many sources may be in Chinese or otherwise difficult to locate for Western editors like me. Also one thing to keep in mind is that many reliable publications in the fashion industry are not online (most of my work is for WP:FASHION, which I founded, and this is often a problem) so it's possible there articles about him that are in physical magazines and the like. Calliopejen1 20:10, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - notability seems to have been established. Fosnez 04:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ɑʀкʏɑɴ 22:42, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - article has undergone some changes late in the discussion and these changes should be given further consideration before the debate is closed. ɑʀкʏɑɴ 22:42, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Plenty o' citations now. Guy seems notable enough. Certainly, if I stumbled across this article in its present form I would never consider it for deletion. SolidPlaid 22:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Week keep - Marginally notable (but suffers from inherent lack of citations in coverage outside major English-speaking countries, and also tendency of commentators, pundits, and analysts to get published for their work and not their personal history), article is written properly, adds to encyclopedic coverage, is not an insult to Wikipedia. Wikidemo 23:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Week keep - borderline on sources but should be given the benefit of the doubt as it stands to logic based on his verifiable position that there would be other major sources not in English or not available online, as explained by Calliopejen1. -Markdsgraham 01:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I interviewed this man for an article in 2004 but unfortunately it is not published that this is true "In a short span of 3 years, he started Elite agencies in Bombay, New Delhi, Seoul, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi and Shanghai. At its height, Cheng's control over the Elite modelling franchise spanned 10 cities including Singapore, Hong Kong, Jakarta and Tokyo.". Any opinions on whether we can re-include it?Also I think thus quote is interesting and verifiable "In Newsweeks article on the Perfect Face (November 2003) which made famous Canadian model Saira Mohan (Newsweek described her as "the perfect example of global beauty"), Cheng was quoted as saying that “There is an increased awareness of all things oriental in the West. And with [the rise] of China, I think this trend is set to continue.” " Should we re-include it? Aricialam 05:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.