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Module talk:Sandbox/Innesw/Infobox Australian place-upgrade

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This is the talk page for Module:Sandbox/Innesw/Infobox_Australian_place-upgrade.

The draft upgrade for the module is now ready for testing and comment. This page is intended as the forum for discussing any issues with the proposed upgrade.

This module can be tested with a call to the template {{User:Innesw/sandbox/Template:Infobox_Australian_place-upgrade}}, in general with any of the same parameters as the existing template. (Be aware that some things look a little different between previews and saved changes.)

There is a testcases page, comparing the output of this upgrade with the existing template.

There is also a draft documentation page with changes reflecting this upgrade.

Detailed descriptions of all the changes made in this upgrade are at the module documentation page.

It should not be assumed the changes made in this upgrade have to be implemented or rejected as a whole - discussion on any of the individual changes is welcome.

I have 'seeded' this page with brief descriptions of each of the detailed changes made in the upgrade. Some are self explanatory, for most I have added a brief explanation or reasoning for the change.

Innesw (talk) 11:21, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to Template Behaviour

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New accepted values for |type=

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settlement

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  • named settled places too small to be a town need their own type, especially so the article short description is appropriate

locality

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townandlocality

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  • many towns have a smallish built-up area (considered 'the town'), and are surrounded by a formal locality of the same name. This value allows the infobox to indentify this situation.

New parameter native_name_footnotes

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  • The RFC about inclusion of indigenous names was concluded with an apparent consensus that indigenous names can be included "when the name is used and reliably sourced".
    |native_name_footnotes= has been added for appropriate placing of the references.

New parameter logo_caption

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  • Simply allows a caption for the logo image

Populations from Wikidata

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Some of these changes are actually implemented in an upgrade to PopulationFromWikidata. These are indicated by '[in population upgrade]'.

Multiple populations show by default

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  • Multiple latest population figures (eg: for the town (UCL) and the locality (SAL)) are shown by default, instead of only a single figure. [in population upgrade]

Citation references in-text and in-infobox now match

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  • This is just a fix to how the reference(s) were created. [in population upgrade]

|pop2= and |poprank= now shown after a population from wikidata is shown

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  • These were previously suppressed if a Wikidata population was used.

No population shown for |type=cadastral or |type=protected

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  • These place types never have ABS population figures, so no population from Wikidata is ever shown [in population upgrade]

Module called with no parameters returns an empty string

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  • Instead of showing an error for a missing |type= value

Remove response to |short description=

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  • It's not in the list of accepted parms, completely absent from the documentation, and not used in any articles. If an article needs a specific short description, it should be added using {{Short description}} in the article.

Move the error messages for empty or unrecognised |type= and |state= to the top of the infobox

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  • These parameters are required, so their absence should be obvious. Note that, if |name= is empty, |state= is not required, so there is no error message if it's not present.

Use different error texts for missing and unrecognised values for |type= and |state=.

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  • For missing values, the error is '|type not defined', for unrecognised values 'unknown |type value <the provided value>'. The same for |state.

Remove the distinction between |type=protected and all other values when setting |type= in the call to {{coordinates}}

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  • This seems to be a hold-over from when the scale of location maps depended on |type=. In this infobox, location maps are always fixed maps (either the default state map, or some other specified map), so determining map scale from type is irrelevent.

In the parameters |local_map=, |force_national_map=, |use_lga_map= and |relief=, a value of 'no' means 'no', not 'yes'.

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  • Despite the documentation for these parameters, editors seem to persist in using 'no' to try and not force these actions, so the code handles the value appropriately.

New accepted values for |map_type=

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  • Values can now completely control the location map, rather that just 'nomap' or 'auto'.

Density not shown if any population from Wikidata is shown

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  • the area the population is for cannot currently be identified in the Wikidata

Remove the space between the density figure and the density footnotes.

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  • A previous proposal for this change was opposed because of (a) the text of the documentation - which is no different to that for the other parameters which have *_footnotes parameters, and (b) a single example (Adelaide) where removing the space allegedly would produce bad formatting - but which (at least now) doesn't have a |density_footnotes= value anyway.

Background colour of the headings for the climate and places-near sub-tables

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  • is now the same as the infobox header and the labels column

The colon at the end of the title of the places-near sub-table is removed

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  • It is the title for a (sub-)table, not the beginning of a list

better display of |near= if no |near-*= supplied

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  • suppresses the empty cells in the the sub-table, so shows no unnecessary empty space

Changes to Categories

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Except in article namespace, all categories (including the tracking categories) are suppressed

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  • None of the categories mean anything except in article space.

Tracking Categories

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The tracking categories used by the template needed simplification. Some of them were created (presumably for temporary use) in 2016, to track useage of parameters controlling the location map.

The upgrade puts articles into the following tracking categories:

Items for Discussion

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New parameter |pop_geog=?

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  • Addition of this parameter would allow the infobox to restrict the displayed (wikidata derived) population to a single geography. There may be a case for this for some articles.

Wikidata populations for |type=region

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  • The default population geography for regions has long been any LGA population in the Wikidata. This doesn't really make sense, but substituting ABS SA3 or SA4 populations is not necessarily any better, since the boundaries for these may not coincide with the region the article is about. It may in fact be better to exclude a wikidata population from the infobox (while still allowing |pop= to be set), and encourage editors to accumulate population figures from constituent parts of the region (eg: LGAs, see Hume_(region)).

Suppress |pop_rank= except for |type=city?

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  • according to the template documentation, |pop_rank= should only be used for the national size rank of a city. Therefore it may make sense to restrict the display of this value unless |type=city.

Substituting the page name where |name= is not supplied

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  • Currently the page name of the article is only substituted for a missing |name= in the heading of the places-near sub-table. The suggestion is that the same substitution should be used for (a) the pushpin label on the location map, (b) the displayed text for |URL=, (c) the centre of the places-near sub-table, and (d) the categories sort keys
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