Talk:Labialization

Open-Labialized

What exactly is open-labialization? I feel like the article should really explain it. I have no clue what this is and an, admittedly lazy, web-search failed to answer. NoveriaOliCajla (talk) 03:53, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

I think it is not explained because it is not well understood. It is used in VoQS, but the main publications which include the symbol for it don't seem to provide a definition or explanation. However, I was able to find two sources giving some explanation (with the later one directly referring to the earlier one); not that they make it any less confusing, though, as there seems to be both overlap and distinction with the spread-compressed-protruded paradigm.

In articulatory terms, front rounded vowels are characterized by anterior tongue position coupled with rounded lip posture (Raphael et al. 1979). One of the first detailed descriptions of the position of the lips in rounded vowels was provided by Sweet (1877). In his Handbook of Phonetics, a distinction is made between INNER and OUTER ROUNDING. Inner rounding, which typically affects back vowels, is characterized by lateral compression of the corners of the mouth, while outer rounding, typical of front vowels, involves vertical lip constriction. Catford (1988: 150) uses the terms ENDOLABIAL and EXOLABIAL, respectively. The former is defined as an articulatory gesture that involves pushing 'the corners of the lips ... towards the centre so that both lips are pushed forwards, or "pouted"', thus forming 'a kind of small tunnel in front of the mouth'. Catford labels this posture endolabial since 'the channel between the lips is formed by the inner surface of the lips rather than their outer surface'. In contrast, exolabial rounding involves vertical compression of the corners of the mouth, 'leaving a small central channel between the lips, of a slit-like flat elliptical shape rather than actually round'. This gesture is exolabial since it involves 'the outer surface of the lips'.
A different account of lip rounding is provided by Laver (1980: 31-43; 1994: 278-284). According to this account, what all rounded vowels have in common is the horizontal contraction of the inter-labial space, compared with neutral lip position. In addition, lip rounding may involve vertical lip displacement. Where horizontal contraction is coupled with simultaneous expansion of the vertical dimension, this is referred to as OPEN ROUNDING, while horizontal contraction on its own, or coupled with simultaneous vertical contraction, is referred to as CLOSE ROUNDING.
Finally, implicit in Catford's definition of endolabial rounding, lip rounding may also involve forward movement, or protrusion, of the lips. In the case of front rounded vowels, this results in an extended supra-laryngeal tract, which has the acoustic effect of formant lowering.

— Robert Mayr, What exactly is a front rounded vowel? An acoustic and articulatory investigation of the NURSE vowel in South Wales English, JIPA (2010), vol. 40 no. 1, pp. 93-94 JSTOR 44527004

'Labialization' as a term has been used in such a variety of ways that it is probably safe to suggest that the only articulatory action to which the various usages usually have any reference in common is horizontal constriction of the interlabial space. The same applies to the general term 'lip-rounding'. It is only when the phonetic labels become more specific in their reference that detailed translation is feasible. Thus the terms 'close rounding' and 'open rounding' can be translated as follows: 'close rounding' is used usually to correspond to horizontal and vertical constriction of the interlabial space, with the degree of protrusion very marked for an articulation such as Cardinal Vowel No. 8 [⟨u⟩], for example (see Jones 1962: 33, Fig. 22), but less marked for Cardinal Vowel No. 7 [⟨o⟩] (ibid. Fig. 21).
'Open rounding' would correspond to horizontal constriction and vertical expansion of the interlabial space, with marked protrusion. The vertical expansion gives way to vertical constriction in a progression to 'close rounding'.
The term 'lip spreading' seems to refer uniquely to horizontal expansion of the interlabial space, with no protrusion, although there is a tacit convention that a spread lip position is limited to postures without much if any vertical expansion of the interlabial space. [...] Another phonetician who explicitly distinguishes between the three labial dimensions is Heffner (1950). He put forward a descriptive scheme for labial articulation in terms not dissimilar to the ones used in this book. He said that, apart from the 'spread lip position', there are "two types of lip rounding. (a) A long narrow slit is produced between the two lips by bringing the lips vertically nearer each other. This is called vertical lip rounding. (b) A horizontally short, more or less oval opening is produced by closing the lips from the corners towards the center until only a small aperture remains. This is called horizontal lip rounding. (Heffner 1950: 98)".

— John Laver, The Phonetic Description of Voice Quality (1980), pp. 38-39, ISBN 0-521-23176-0

~ oklopfer (💬) 05:30, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Can you explain why are 2 "open-labialization" that unusual such as /Cꟹ/ or /Vꟹ/ and /Cᵓ/ or /Vᵓ/? señor verde⸻pregúnteme 11:59, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

@Señor verde ⟨ᵓ⟩ is not used for open labialization/rounding, only ⟨ꟹ⟩ is. While the details of "open rounding" are not exactly clear to me given the descriptions from the quotes above, it is certain that it is referring to articulation of the lips.

On the other hand, ⟨ᵓ⟩ is used for [ɔ]-coloring, which is about the acoustic quality of a sound and potential tongue position alterations, such as in Tillamook language and lateral approximants; it does not necessarily specify any kind of labialization (lip articulation). The process might sometimes be called "internal rounding" (different from "open rounding") because of the acoustic quality it produces similar to a standard labialized sound, but this is somewhat erroneous as there is no "rounding" going on at all.

And this differs even further still from sulcalization, which has also erroneously been referred to as "internal rounding" before, as it has a very similar acoustic effect to so called [ɔ]-coloring; but sulcalization forms a longitudinal divot down the middle of the tongue by raising the sides of the dorsum (like a hot dog bun), while [ɔ]-coloring tends to form a dip in the center of the tongue by raising the tip and dorsum upwards (like a lighter form of velarization) - quite literally perpendicular from one another. ~ oklopfer (💬) 15:49, 13 October 2025 (UTC)