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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete after discounting the various antics of new and anonymous contributors.  Sandstein  19:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Brett Salisbury

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Brett Salisbury (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This person is non-notable. The sporting achievements are minor, the modeling claims are questionable, and the opening claim of being a nutritionist is unsubstantiated other than by an, as yet, unpublished book (also subject to an AfD Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Transform_diet). Poltair (talk) 14:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - Thank you, Poltair, for regularising this additional nomination. This person is not notable, the sources aren't reliable, his achievements aren't important, and I don't much care how long his commute is. It all just reads like advertising puffery for his book. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Do NOT Delete The harlon Hill finalist is bigger than any all-american list. There are college athletes that have this title and only this title with wikipeida articles.This list alone qualifies him as the ELITE. Again, the sourced article here will tell you where and how long he played pro football. Male Super Model: ***Comment The harlon Hill finalist alone qualifies him:

1. Harlon Hill Finalist: http://www.harlonhill.com/Archives/candidates_by_team.htm 2. Hall of Fame Collegiate Player: http://www.wsc.edu/athletics/football/archives/passing/ 3. All-American Quarterback, Pro-Football Player with Helsinki Giants, and Prague Panthers: http://www.palomar.edu/athletics/football/history/ 4. IMDB Actor for Promise me this: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2086154/ 5. Filands sexiest male and male super model: http://www.paparazzi.fi/ 6. Google Brett Salisbury at the news tab, go to all dates on left...the articles are endless on this guy! TheWizard49 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 15:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment As previously discussed at the Transform Diet nomination: 1) Being a finalist for a comparatively minor college football trophy is not notable. 2) Whose Hall of Fame? If it's just one college, that's not notable. 3) Whose all-American listing? Is that notable? 4) The IMDB entry shows that this film is the only one by its production company, that the director also wrote the screenplay, and that virtually none of the actors even have a photograph online. It looks like a non-notable production. 5) I'm not convinced that's a notable achievement or a reliable source. 6) Oh yeah? AlexTiefling (talk) 15:36, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Addendum OK, so I forgot to click 'all dates' in Google. This stuff just appears to be local press coverage of his college career, though. 'Brett Salisbury gets passing grade'? Spare me, please. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My final comment on this matter: Many articles are written in finnish and Czech, You need to verify that. Every tab on the bottom (Mormon Missionaries, Wayne State College, Brigham Young Cougars, Nutritionists etc) qualify him as he was a member of each. This cannot be denied. Whether it's big or small in your eyes, the articles written ALL verify this. Again the All-American list of JC Gridwire is an elite group. The male model articles are again in italian and Finnish. Find a way to translate those and go from there. Take care. I'm done with this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.223.102.70 (talk) 15:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Concerned about the lack of references for his sporting and modeling achievements - many of them do not link to anything relevant (and the readers poll for a local newspaper is not an appropriate reference). Also concerned about the EFAF Cup. I'm not American, or otherwise have much knowledge of American Football, but Wikipedia says EFAF is only the "... second highest level of club competition ...". This seems way down the ladder of notability: America -> Europe -> Europe 2nd league. This guy has obviously done a lot of things in his life, I'm just not sure how notable (aka Wikipedia notability) they are individually. An article should be able to explain to someone like me (i.e. someone with little knowledge of football, which is his main claim to fame) why the guy is notable (and I should be able to verify the claims). At the moment, it does not do this. THEN WHO WAS PHONE? (talk) 18:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Verdatum. Stifle (talk) 19:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per AlexTiefling. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of football also-rans in the U.S. If this person was notable as major contributors to the article claim, there would be sources to back it up. Movingboxes (talk) 20:27, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Interesting News On Salisbury: According to International Football Scouting Report online by Professional Scout Ken Robinson, he says "Here are the TOP 10 Paid Players of All Time in Europe: #1 Estrus Crayton #2 Xavier Crawford #3 Tony Rice #4 Brett Salisbury #5 Tom Young #6 Ron Lopez #7 Petrus Pankki #8 Sammi Alalammpi #9 Damon Huard #10 Jeff Loot

Please go to: http://www.leaguelineup.com/guestbook.asp?url=ifs-scouting&sid=859417480 Of this list Tony Rice was Heisman Trophy finalist in college, Sammi Alalammpi played for the NFL Europe Barcelona Dragons and was Salisbury's receiver. The article also says Salisbury was First Team all-Europe in 1995 Quarterback and player of the year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.223.102.70 (talk) 23:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • That link just leads to a forum post from a guy called 'ken', who doesn't sign his posts, and whose email address proclaims that he's a '24/7 sports fan'. No evidence to suggest that the poster is a professional scout; and even if he were, a forum post is not a reliable source. Frankly, American football in Europe is hardly a notable sport at all! AlexTiefling (talk) 14:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The NFL Europe was hardly a notable sport in Europe? Wrong! 7 players per team in Europe each played in the NFL of America. What are you talking about AlexTiefling? The EFAF is an affiliate of that league. YOu need to get your facts straight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.145.244.15 (talk) 18:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Another interesting note on Salisbury: he dated the countries most famous beauty queen, Miss Finland of 1991, Tanja Vienonen, who is now known as Tanja Karpela. Who now seems to be a very prominant politican in Finland. They claim she was our equivalent of Cindy Crawford. Every finnish report confirms this as does the magazine (Seitseman Paiva) http://www.seiska.fi/ In my opinion any guy who would date Cindy Crawford of their country is definately notable. Salisbury Confirms this on his site transformdiet.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.223.102.70 (talk) 00:27, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • You have no source for that. Ms Karpela appears to have been married twice, and to have a fairly well-documented and public love-life. Can you find any coverage at all in a reliable news source or other independent location - preferably in English, French or Swedish, so I can read it? AlexTiefling (talk) 14:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Incidentally after dating Tanja Karpela. Salisbury was named as Finlands Sexiest Male according to www.seiska.fi/ To put this in perspective. George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp are Americas sexiest males previous winners. Salisbury was the entire country of Finland's in 1996...That is pretty damn notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.223.102.70 (talk) 00:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Seriously - America is not comparable to Finland. To be acclaimed the sexiest man in Finland is not the same magnitude of recognition as to be acclaimed the sexiest man in the USA. (Likewise for 'Tanja Karpela is Finland's Cindy Crawford'.) There are more than twice as many people in Salisbury's home state of Ohio as in the whole of Finland. And the opinion of some website as to who (this week, or month, or whatever) is the Sexiest $Gender in $Location is not in itself notable or reliable. Such sources change their minds at a whim; it's pure promotional puffery. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regardless of AlexTiefling's opinion, he continues to use "promotional puffery" statement. ALEXTIEFLING IS NOT FROM THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and his opinion continues to bash Americans. He cannot be taken seriously. No body on here can deny the success of salisbury regardless of what country he or she is from or AlexTiefling's future opinions on this subject. He has never had a positive thing to say, check out each of his wiki debates. His opinion holds little value and water and in his latest opinion above only proves the point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.145.244.77 (talk) 16:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP Salisbury, I agree with the user above. I'm not someone who comments on people but after reading this entire log and looking at the person, Brett Salisbury is a notable person. I would also nominate user ALEXTIEFLING to be removed as an editor from this page. He seems that no matter what is proven, it's not good enough. NOMINATE TO REMOVE ALEXTIEFLING FROM THIS WIKI DISCUSSION —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.12.253.66 (talk) 17:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've travelled extensively in the United States, and no-one who knows me would call me anti-American. But that's not the point. This isn't (or shouldn't be) about my personal attributes. I'm using the expression 'advertising puffery' and its derivatives because I believe it to be a factually accurate characterisation of the claims being made. I don't think that this individual meets Wikipedia's notability criteria, and I don't think your sources are reliable. You can't nominate me for removal from this discussion; if you really think I should be banned from Wikipedia, go right ahead and report me on the Administrators' Noticeboard. I think you might find that course of action counter-productive, though. My argument here remains consistent: Brett Salisbury is not notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia, and here's why:
  1. He didn't win the award he was nominated for. The award is notable, but failing to win it isn't.
  2. I can't find any confirmation that his 'All-American' status was promoted or endorsed above a regional or even college-specific level - which would seem to be a basic point for its acceptance. In any case, it's argued above by a 'keep' supporter that this is less notable than nomination for the Harlon Hill prize, which as I've argued, isn't itself a notable achievement.
  3. His status as 'Finland's sexiest man' is neither verified, nor reliable, nor objective.
  4. His relationship with Ms Karpela is not substantiated.
  5. Second-division American football in Europe is not a notable sporting activity, at least in my opinion; if my expertise on the US is doubted, at least let me comment on Europe.
  6. His book on dietetics is unpublished, and thus ipso facto not (yet) notable. It may very well remain so after publication.
  7. This debate (and the related one on the diet he promotes) has been characterised by ad hominem attacks, apparent conflicts of interest, overstated hype, and the appearance of sockpuppetry.

AlexTiefling (talk) 17:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Brett Salisbury, everything is substantiated. I went on to look up Salisbury and since he was a kid winning in the world series until now. I also went on the sites above and was able to google salisbury in the finnish magazine seistamen paiva. There are clearly over 40 articles and sub articles obtainting to this including his relationship with MS. Karpela as she is quoted as saying 'Brett was a great guy and I wish him all the best" Source: www.seiska.fi/

I too nominate to Remove ALEXTIEFLING from Wikipedia. He is a pest and does not help the wikipedia community. Salisbury has done more than half the male models listed in wikipedia. Go verify that. I just did —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.12.253.66 (talk) 17:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can I remind User:168.12.253.66 not to indulge in name-calling? AlexTiefling seems to be being civil in their arguments; there's no call to go making these sort of comments. Pseudomonas(talk) 18:12, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The argument is not about Salisbury being an Author, ALEXTIEFLING needs to remove that argument. This is about Salisbury being notable. HE IS. It also states in the articles in Europe Salisbury made over $125K per year. THATS NOTABLE AS A PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE. If you can't read finnish, you can't comment on what has been said ALEXTIEFLING, go get a translator!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.12.253.66 (talk) 17:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, if an independent Finnish-speaker is willing to give up some time to this matter, I'd love to hear what these Finnish sites say. However, a search of seiska.fi for the name 'Salisbury' produced no hits. '0', at least, is the same in English and in Finnish. AlexTiefling (talk) 18:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete - I don't think that notability has really been established. Also, the article is rife with weasel words (though this in itself is an argument for cleanup rather than deletion) Pseudomonas(talk) 18:12, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes but that user has not contributed to the past 5 entries! Remove ALEXTIEFLING. Keep Salisbury and his brother they both are celebrities

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.157.110.11 (talk)

You will observe the absence of the page Alex Tiefling (also of ALEXTIEFLING). What do you mean "the past 5 entries"? Pseudomonas(talk) 18:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, while I'm at it, should one draw any conclusions from the phenomenon that all the anonymous editors are afflicted with the same curious idiosyncrasy of spelling "ALEXTIEFLING" in upper-case? Pseudomonas(talk) 19:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP -I watched Salisbury play against the London Monarchs in the early 90's in England. He was fabulous and MVP of the game. Keep Salisbury, he is more than notable. Remove the hatr ALEXTIEFLING. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.157.110.11 (talk) 18:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is MVP in a single match a claim of notability? Is it a transferable standard? Or is it just more unsourced opinion? Again, what procedure should be followed to remove me? And what is a 'hatr'? AlexTiefling (talk) 18:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
teh hatr. HTH Pseudomonas(talk) 18:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • The sudden onslaught of anonymous IP's voting both to keep and remove "ALEXTIEFLING" always spelled in all caps (removing an editor is not even something that can be done here) and always neglecting to sign their comments strongly suggests either Sockpuppetry or Meatpuppetry. I hope that any all all involved realize that this is a discussion to gauge concensus, not a vote, and that closing administrators are clever enough to notice these sort of patterns and dismiss them when forming conclusions. Those wishing the article be kept would do better to spend their time improving the article or improving their arguments to match policies and guidelines than to spend time attempting an attack on dissenting editors. -Verdatum (talk) 19:12, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think everyone needs to relax. He is defintely notable. Take into consideration most of the attributes salisbury had were pre-internet days. Therefore many things in English are tough to get, especially if the guy fell out of the spotlight after (it looks) like 1997. Knowing this, one cannot say he is not notable, simply that he HASN'T BEEN notable since 97. But that he did EARN everything up to that point. Call him a one or two hit wonder, but he still made the news in more than one way. For that reason and after everything I have read. KEEP him, but remove Transform Diet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.145.244.77 (talk) 19:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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