Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fergus Moore

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is that the subject lacks significant coverage in reliable sources, and there is no consensus -- either in our policy or in this debate -- to support the inherent notability of the head chef of a Michelin-starred restaurant. Mkativerata (talk) 22:59, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fergus Moore

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An Irish chef who works at a Michelin stared restaurant. There are sources about the restaurant mentioning him, but unable to find sources about him. Thus, he fails WP:GNG Bgwhite (talk) 06:58, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —Tom Morris (talk) 08:46, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 14:09, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (as author). Added a navigation box to put in more context, part of a series of articles. Found another source about him. According to Máirtín Mac Con Iomaire, the author of the DIT thesis The Emergence, Development and Influence of French Haute Cuisine on Public Dining in Dublin Restaurants 1900-2000: An Oral History written sources are notoriously hard to find, especially when somebody is not a celebrity chef (what is the case with most head chefs). Night of the Big Wind _talk 11:58, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The entire sentence with Moore mentioned is, "There was John Dunne, there was Fergus Moore, who is now in Sheen Falls but I don’t think he’s cooking anymore." The context is a chef is mentioning his time at a restaurant and the sentence gives who was there with him. This is not exactly a reliable source about Moore. Bgwhite (talk) 20:18, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see in the context of the article it just confirm that he is/was a chef, that he worked in the Sheen Falls Hotel and that he had worked as part of a team that earned a Michelin star. The article is really thin, I agree. But with a Michelin star being the highest and most wanted award, he sure is notable. And why should a restaurant with one star be notable and the chef who earns is not? See: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The House (restaurant). Night of the Big Wind _talk 20:26, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment A Michelin star is in fact earned by the head chef, not by the restaurant. Head chef leaving normally means losing your star(s). See for example Parkheuvel that lost two of its three stars after head chef Cees Helder left and the kitchen was taken over by Erik van Loo, who used to work in the two starred restaurant De Zwethheul. Night of the Big Wind _talk 15:43, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've been unable to find where a Michelin star makes a chef presumed notable. Do you know where a link is? A Michelin star is actually given to the restaurant. A look a Mechelin's faq page never mentions chef, but only the restaurant. Here is a good description of a Mechelin star and note they say restaurant. Among the things considered for a star is wine list, the surroundings and the if food is priced accordingly. These three things may not be something that a chef can control. Bgwhite (talk) 20:09, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In that case a restaurant should keep his star when the head chef leaves, but that is seldom the case... Night of the Big Wind _talk 20:19, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ow, the article about the Michelin guide and the FAQ from Michelin both mention cuisine as in Three stars reward exceptional cuisine, worth a special journey, where diners eat extremely well, often superbly.. Cuisine can give you an insight what is ment with that. Your last source clearly mentions cooking. It is all about cooking. Night of the Big Wind _talk 00:07, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, cuisine is the most important part. But the star goes to the restaurant. The Oscar goes to the movie, not the director, who has the most to do with artistic direction of the movie. In a restaurant, you have the head chef, who is also the most important. But you also have the sous chef, sommelier, owner, servers, etc. Have a bad sommelier or servers and the restaurant can't get 2 stars. Nowhere that I found a star makes a chef presumed notable. Nowhere that I found are there reliable sources about the chef.

The staff can cost a chef his stars, true. But it is the chef and the "White Brigade" that earns them, not the "Black Brigade"! See here:

“

"Wist u dat “de sterren enkel en alleen op het bord liggen” ? De sterren zijn een beoordeling van de kwaliteit van de keuken. Bij de toekenning wordt rekening gehouden met 5 criteria : de kwaliteit van de producten, de beheersing van de kooktechnieken en de smaken, de persoonlijkheid van de chef, de prijs-kwaliteitverhouding, de constante kwaliteit: zowel van de gerechten als in de tijd. Deze criteria zijn overigens sinds 2005 vermeld in de inleiding van de gids. De decoratie, het tafellinnen, het aantal personeelsleden en de kwaliteit van de uitrusting tellen absoluut niet mee bij de toekenning van de sterren, maar bepalen hoeveel couverts een adres krijgt.[1]

English: Did you know that "the star only lie on the plate"? The stars are an assessment of the quality of the cuisine. At the award takes into account five criteria: quality of products, control of the cooking techniques and flavors, the chef's personality, value for money, consistent quality: both the dishes and in time. These criteria are also mentioned in the introduction since 2005 of the guide. The decorations, the tablecloths, the staff and the quality of the equipment count absolutely no part in the awarding of stars, but determine how many couverts an address is receiving.

”

Night of the Big Wind _talk 00:35, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: There are thousands of Michelin Starred restaurants around the world. Does every head chef who ever led a restaurant while it had a star rating meet the notability guideline? Clearly not. The basic guideline remains that there has to be substantial, reliable, 3rd party coverage of the topic. This is clearly not the case here. --Slashme (talk) 12:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How many thousands? Not many according to fr:Liste des restaurants étoilés par le Guide Michelin. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:50, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No demonstration through references of notability. --HighKing (talk) 00:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I rest my case. Lack of sources, okay. But some other arguments are a heartbreaking show of not-knowing-where-you-are-talking-about. Night of the Big Wind _talk 11:21, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: This seems a pretty straightforward deal. A number of sources are listed, but they not only do not discuss the subject in "significant detail," as the GNG requires, but they scarcely mention him at all. As it happens, Wikipedia policies and guidelines do not rise and fall on whether we're experts on cooking, but on whether the subjects of articles meet the criteria of notability and verifiability. The subject of this one does not. Fails WP:N. ῲ Ravenswing ῴ 21:52, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.