Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive315
Minaro123
[edit]| Minaro123 is limited to maximum of one revert per 24 hours on all articles and limited to using articles for creation for creating new articles on any topic.--RegentsPark (comment) 18:54, 28 January 2023 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Minaro123[edit]
I argue that Minaro123 has a CIR issue; his contributions are essentially disinformation and the noise-to-signal ratio is too high to be a net positive. Right after being subject to a sanction, he is misrepresenting sources and defending the same using ridiculously tortous arguments! He can either be indefinitely blocked from the project or sanctioned with an indefinite T-Ban from anything that has to do with Brokpas (broadly construed). I, Joshua Jonathan, and others have wasted sufficient editorial resources in the process of engaging him and trying to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Discussion concerning Minaro123[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Minaro123[edit]1[1]
I have welcomed TrangaBellam to welcome a have a constructive critisim here regarding the Map and i told him I could be wrong ,[2] and since Indian book deport was established before 1936 [3],i added it only in a talk section to have a opinion about others editor.
My major contribution related to the topic of Aryan valley is: [12] In a old revision of Brokpa page ,the population of the Brokpa was false however i have discussed in Brokpa talk section [13]title=Brokpa&oldid=1124611839 And add a corrected it . The Aryan valley articles was created by me and was nominated for deletion by kautilya3 and was suporting by TrangaBellam , [14], However me and Elinruby have provided evidence to save it. However after the decision of Aryan valley was to keep, k3 and TB has did a edits without having a discussion on a talk. Thank you Minaro123 (talk) 22:14, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Elinruby[edit]The thing that strikes me the most here is the utter certitude of TB and K3 of the correctness of their actions. Bookku is correct in saying that this is fundamentally a content dispute. My issue is the way it's been addressed. I first became aware of the article at AfD, where the rationale was that the residents of Aryan Valley weren't *really* Aryan. Nobody in this story here claims that they are, mind you, but the important part is that the article survived AfD because it was about a place, not a people. That night it was edited into an article about how the people of the area are not really Aryans, over repeated attempts to discuss, as recent as yesterday. I did want to address Bookku's concern about quality. Recent deletions include cited work by me about apricot and barley cultivation, and cited ethnography]. Nobody is suggesting that the article should not meet normal standards, which is why I suggested AfC. I would not oppose requiring him to publish that way, if my assurances that I will help don't seem sufficient. Meanwhile, having edited Aryan Valley into something unrecognizable, TB filed a 3RR complaint, and this complaint, and is currently trying to redirect another village article to the article about how the people who live in Aryan Valley aren't really Aryan. all within the last couple of days. Elinruby (talk) 19:42, 24 January 2023 (UTC) (Earlier) Minaro123 wants to write an article(s) about a group of villages. I was under the impression that we encourage that. He is willing to learn the standards and apply them. For example, Wikipedia does indeed have a list of perennial sources. I don't know where "exhaustive" came from. He really does need to figure out how to run spell-check however, yes. I remain baffled as to Trangabellam's goal. I think Mindaro123 should work on his articles, offline if necessary, and publish them through AfC. I will continue to help him. TB should be admonished about newbie, biting, and encouraged to find something else to do.(later: besides the Aryan-ness of the Minaro, that is) The current version of Aryan Valley should be moved to Aryan Valley (problems Trangabellam has with the name) The central issue here is however that it isn't up to TB to decide whether Minaro123 is competent or what ethnic group he belongs to. To the extent that he's a problem, it's being addressed. At this point it may as well be in Draft, since the article he was writing is gone. At that point the AfC process can be a failsafe, if anyone is worried about his English. I don't think he realizes how bad it is, but I do and will work with him on ways to deal with that, by editing the article myself if need be.Elinruby (talk) 23:10, 23 January 2023 (UTC) TB reverting my statement[edit]Could someone please explain to TB that they are involved? I'm under the impression that the policy they cited doesn't apply here. If I'm wrong about that, I will rework the statement to include the words they questioned, although it all seems off-topic to me. I would appreciate a clarification that TB is a party here. I now need to be offline for a while, will address this on my return. Elinruby (talk) 20:43, 24 January 2023 (UTC) Housekeeping[edit]TB presents themself as a subject matter expert, so it did not occur to me that this editor would not realize that Minaro123, participant in many a discussion about the oral history of the Minaro, is a member of the Minaro ethnic group. Apparently TB believes that the above account somehow accuses them of outing an editor who has their name and all of the IP addresses they have used on their user page. It would not have occured to me that it could be read this way. I am not interested in TB. I just want Minaro123 to be allowed to contribute an article. Hopefully this clears up any confusion. Elinruby (talk) 00:10, 25 January 2023 (UTC) @Kautilya3:. Yes. My question is why? Elinruby (talk) 01:32, 25 January 2023 (UTC) @Bishonen: Thanks. I stand by it fine. I just think it's off-topic. But by all means if somebody disagrees. @TrangaBellam: (trying again) You keep telling Minaro123 that the Minaro are Bropka Elinruby (talk) 11:41, 25 January 2023 (UTC) @RegentsPark: sure. That is why I called the whole ethnicity thing off-topic. Just saying, my neighbors would get upset if someone assigned them some other ethnicity. Some exasperation is understandable, especially when it was cited ethnologists that were getting dismissed, not just the elders of Dha. All of the effort that went into discussion here was completely one-sided. I don't pretend to understand what TB is trying to accomplish, but they essentially gutted the Aryan Valley article and are now piously lecturing me on my talk page about the integrity of content. I will be offline most of the day but will check this when I get back to see if there are questions Elinruby (talk) 18:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC) @Bookku: I strongly support the adoption of the articles. I am particularly concerned about Aryan Valley, which was transformed overnight into something other than the article that survived AfD. By the people calling his objections disruptive editing. Please let me know if I can help. @RegentsPark: I noticed you crossed out the part about Minaro123 taking a break. He has exams coming up and needs to take a break. I am encouraging him to focus on his exams. He is upset about this episode however. As for what to do about this complaint, yeah, I proposed the AfD restriction. I have said I'll help him, but a formal process won't hurt him, since we agree that there's a problem there, and nothing is stopping me from helping him on a draft. I would like to mention that when I first encountered him at the AfD, he was citing the elders of Dha, so the fact that he is citing ethnologists is vast progress in a couple of weeks, and he does learn. I have some concerns about 1RR however, since I would have thought that it would apply in any event to all parties given that the area in question abuts the Line of Control. Could you please clarify what discretionary sanctions apply to these articles? And that they apply to all editors? I'd appreciate it. Elinruby (talk) 18:55, 27 January 2023 (UTC) @RegentsPark: I admit that I am out of my area of expertise here, but frozen or not, that conflict is ongoing, is it not? Kargil, one of the villages in question, is *on* the line of control and is occupied by the Indian Army. Dah is 40-some miles from the front. I don't claim to fully understand this dispute, but I can understand why Minaro would object to repeatedly being told that his ethnic group believes they are Aryan. The point I don't understand is why TB is so adamant in saying it, based on that one sociologist they keep citing, to the point of promo. Clearly, strong feelings are involved, is all I am saying, and if DS is going to be applied then I personally think it should be applied to all involved. Thank you for your previous reply, btw. I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I'm just not sure that the proposed solution addresses the entire problem. I will of course abide by whatever you decide and will try to help Minaro123 to do so. I do think there is a lot of merit in Bookku's suggestion, fwiw. Elinruby (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Bookku[edit]Uninvolved opinion.
Bookku (talk) 07:18, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Kautiya3[edit]I am not writing a full statement here since the user seems to be voluntarily withdawing. But to drive home the CIR issue, he was told on 20 November 2022 the need for WP:Full citations and the guidelines for WP:RS. Yet, he provided within the last 24 hours this link (a book titled "My Unskooled Year" by a certain "Sagarikka", published by "Notions Press"). The user has been editing for more than a year and is extended-confirmed. If he still appears to Elinruby as a "newbie", that itself is an indication of a CIR issue. We have also had to face edit-warring/tag-teaming from apparent members of the ethnic group, who are variously called Brokpa/Dard/Minaro/Aryan. So this doesn't stop with one supposedly "newbie" editor. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:46, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Result concerning Minaro123[edit]
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SashiRolls
[edit]| Closed with no action. SashiRolls is reminded of the broad terms of their IBAN. Please review and take notice of the feedback from this discussion. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 04:54, 30 January 2023 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SashiRolls[edit]
It's a relatively small thing, to "thank" someone, and on the face of it, not something one would normally expect to result in sanctions. But, our WP:IBAN policy says: Under the circumstances, though, it seems to me that he should have made it his business to know what the IBAN rules are. And there was no particular reason for him to have thanked me for that edit I made ([4]). It was completely unrelated to anything I'm aware of him doing, and I don't see him making an edit in that RfC after I made that formatting fix. From my end, it feels creepy, like he was following edits I made and letting me know that he was seeing them. Although I'm under no restrictions under the 1-way ban, I actually have no idea what edits, if any, SashiRolls has been making, because I'm not concerning myself with that, and I sure didn't ask for that blue notification that brings me here. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:43, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning SashiRolls[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SashiRolls[edit]I had no intention of having any contact whatsoever with my accuser. I think this must have been due to a careless swipe closing a window while looking through the RfC on Vector 2022 last night. When blocked, the giant 'thanks' button did not appear at the bottom of the screen on the phone app, so I'm used to just swiping from bottom to top to make the app disappear. I am aware that thanking someone is not permitted and would not have done it intentionally. It is my assumption that wp:banex allows me to reply to this immediate escalation. I will look into this further when I get home from the hospital this evening, as normally I thought you had to confirm to give thanks, which I certainly did not do... unless the dialog box was also swept away in the effort to close the window. -- SashiRolls đż ¡ đĽ 16:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC) I have just checked and indeed no confirmation is necessary on Android... You have two seconds to cancel if you misclick / mis-swipe. -- SashiRolls đż ¡ đĽ 16:52, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Please do not accuse me of lying. I guarantee you I just thanked SFR and was given only 2 seconds to cancel using Chrome on Android. Talk about a gotcha' filing and a wp:agf failure. :/. -- SashiRolls đż ¡ đĽ 17:26, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Again, please do not accuse me of lying. I just thanked Bishonen for her comment and was unable to take a screenshot of the tiny line of text appearing beneath the BIG BLUE BUTTON at the lower right of the screen where your thumb goes to swipe Chrome into the background on Android. It disappeared that quickly. I may have mispoken when using the word "app". It is for Commons that I sometimes use the App, but apparently I need to redownload it because it hasn't worked for months now. I assure you, I had absolutely no intention whatsoever of interacting with him. -- SashiRolls đż ¡ đĽ 18:19, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Nableezy: on pages with significant amounts of text scattered all over the place (such as in the Vector 2022 RfC) I find the easiest way to read, by far, is by going to the top diff and then clicking "previous diff" so that I have enough context to understand what's going on. Perhaps in future, this method of reading would be best avoided as it apparently makes inadvertent errors such as this one possible. Thanks to those who compensated for my incompetence in video capturing using my phone! -- SashiRolls đż ¡ đĽ 19:15, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by KoA[edit]And here I just caught myself earlier today thinking I hadn't heard anything about SR since their unban (and hadn't gone looking either until I saw this). All I'll say is that multiple editors in the unban discussion did mention one of SR's issues is a sort of stalking of targets that warranted the sanctions in the first place. That context matters even if it were just a little thing that wasn't directly spelled out in ban policy instead of this. Tryptofish was correct to come here in part because there is no other realistic option to discuss an I-ban violation even when it's one-way. Otherwise, it would be like someone who caused a car crash (accident or not) chastising one of those who got hit for asking the cops to get involved. Regardless of intent or accident, SR already knows they are supposed to steer clear of Tryptofish, and WP:BANEX is not an excuse for sniping. Instead, SR used this AE as an opportunity to launch into loaded language to lay it on thick like Others that can test it can assess the validity of the Vector 2022 comments, but what led to the interaction can also become a red herring from later behavior, so that's why the comments caught my eye. KoA (talk) 18:11, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Shibbolethink[edit]Without making any other statement or claim as to this filing, I just wanted to point out, @ScottishFinnishRadish @Isabelle Belato-- @SashiRolls is talking about using the mobile site on the Android Chrome app. Not using the Wikipedia for Android App. Very different interfaces on iOS between these two so I can imagine it's similarly very different on Android. I just tested it (on @Tewdar Statement by Tewdar[edit]If you view a diff using a mobile web browser (Chrome, Firefox, Opera...) and hit "thank", it gives you two seconds to cancel, without confirmation. Tewdar 18:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Nableezy[edit]What was the diff Tryptofish? Because personally I'd be willing to buy it was an accident that I will make sure will never be repeated if it was a diff from a discussion SR was involved in, but if they just randomly trolling through Tryptofish's contributions to go through them for god knows what then I personally would say it doesnt matter if it was an accident, block for the IB vio anyway. nableezy - 18:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Objective3000[edit]Iâm no fan of Sashi, !voted neutral with TBan last time and block on all previous times. Iâve also been sarcastically âthankedâ in the past by another editor. But, my feeling on this is Meh. Sashi will have to try harder than this to get blocked again. O3000, Ret. (talk) 19:01, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Sideswipe9th[edit]I've just sent two videos to ScottishFinnishRadish demonstrating the two different ways that en.m.wikipedia handles sending thanks for contributions. If you're looking at the history for a page, there is a confirmation requirement prior to sending thanks. However if you're browsing by the diff views, sending thanks has no confirmation, and only a 2 second window to cancel as other editors have said. I don't know of any other ways to send thanks via the mobile site. I'd be happy to send these videos by email to any other admins who'd want to see, but I don't want to upload them to files/commons if I can avoid it. Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Mr Ernie[edit]Let me at least use this opportunity to thank everyone who chooses to contribute to Wikipedia. Mr Ernie (talk) 19:21, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Floq[edit]Would the same uninvolved admin who closes this with an assumption that this was an unfortunate coincidence and a weak reminder that SR shouldn't thank TF also remind SR that using terms like "accuser", "immediate escalation, "gotcha filing", and "agf failure" above, about someone they're ibanned from, is also an iban violation? I presume this is SR on their best behavior, and they still can't help but test the boundaries. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:28, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Buffs[edit]Error or not, the worst punishment appropriate here is a WP:Trouting, but more appropriately "be more careful". I recognize that Tryptofish effectively has no other recourse and find no fault bringing it here. As with above, I too thank all the people who have made solid edits to Wikipedia (since when is such gratitude a punishable offense? If he were spamming with "thanks" all over the place, you'd have a point, but two things that appear to be nothing more than a misclick? Tempest in a teapot perhaps?). As for reading through old posts, I know I've done so to see where I could have done better and that means looking through diffs to see what others said too. It seems to be a reasonable mistake...SR, please avoid being even close to such behavior in the future. Buffs (talk) 20:23, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Politrukki[edit]Tryptofish claims Based on the timeline of SashiRolls's edits and Tryptofish's edit, it could be argued that Tryptofish creepily followed SashiRolls to the page, but I think if TF wished to annoy SashiRolls, TF could have found a better way. Even though a technical violation happened, the filing is unnecessary escalation. As the two-way IBAN is yet to be reinstated, a peaceful resolution could have been reached by assuming good faith and leaving a message to SashiRolls asking them to refrain from using "thank" function. Moreover, Tryptofish, your claim that SashiRolls shouldn't say they were accused of lying if they weren't accused of lying, but I believe this is moot after their last comment. What more there is to be done? Close with no action. Politrukki (talk) 20:42, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Cullen328[edit]I guess that I am involved because I have commented on the conduct of SashiRolls in the past although not in the recent unblock request, where I was sincerely undecided and chose to remain silent. As is pretty well known, I edit using the fully functional desktop site on Android smartphones, and my thank function requires an affirmative verification before it goes through, because I choose to use fully functional software instead of slipshod WMF software deviations. All that being said, I am perfectly willing to accept that WMF software botchery may well yield a less acceptable result when using any of their less than fully functional sites and apps. But what really concerns me here is the snide, confrontational remarks by SashiRolls that Floquenbeam points out above. This editor is fresh off a lengthy block for this type of behavior, and I was prepared to assume that this editor would refrain from stuff like this, but I guess that I was wrong. Maybe they will now stop behaving this way, or maybe they will continue and get blocked again, this time forever for real. Time will tell, I suppose, but after the comments by SashiRolls above, I am not optimistic about their future as a Wikipedia editor. Cullen328 (talk) 08:08, 24 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by starship.paint[edit]@Isabelle Belato, ScottishFinnishRadish, Bishonen, Tamzin, and Vanamonde93: - can we wrap this up? starship.paint (exalt) 07:13, 29 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning SashiRolls[edit]
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CanterburyUK
[edit]| CanterburyUK has been page-blocked indefinitely from Jordan Peterson and Talk:Jordan Peterson. Bishonen | tĂĽlk 11:47, 31 January 2023 (UTC). | ||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning CanterburyUK[edit]
N/A
In summary, per the diffs above, this user has recently focused a single-minded effort on providing more favorable coverage of Jordan Peterson (righting great wrongs), violating 1RR, using very low quality sources, SYNTH, and POV text to do so. In the process of arguing for these insertions, they have strayed into WP:SEALION territory, repeatedly arguing their points and adding many multiple new sections, in essence taking over the talk page for their campaign. They have violated numerous other talk page guidelines despite warnings, and appear to have no interest in fixing these behavioral problems, raising WP:CIR and WP:IDHT concerns. Several editors have advised the user this is a contentious area, not a good place for those unfamiliar with the guidelines or policies. It appears the user is too invested in this topic to comply with WP:PAG, especially considering how complex, sensitive, and treacherous this topic area is. Perhaps worst of all, their conduct in the area has become a massive drain on others' time and effort, as calmly answering their many long and drawn out threads, reviewing their edits, etc. has taken up many hours of nearly a dozen experienced editors. I propose the user be indefinitely topic-banned (or page-banned) from Jordan Peterson, as the most narrowly-targeted remedy which would stop this disruption. Thank you for your time and attention.â Shibbolethink (â â) 17:49, 27 January 2023 (UTC)(06:53, 28 January 2023 (UTC) edited to strike confusing diffs, replace, and lay it out in chronological order below) Note: I apologize for the number of diffs and words. I think I have probably exceeded the 20 diff limit. I request an exception in this case given that the behavior in question from this user involves many repeated actions which require diff evidence for each. Happy to remove some of the repeat diffs and/or reduce word count as requested. Thanks â Shibbolethink (â â) 17:59, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning CanterburyUK[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by CanterburyUK[edit]Statement by Sideswipe9th[edit]My thoughts on CanterburyUK mirror much of what Shibbolethink has said, so I'll keep this brief for now. I think a PBAN or TBAN from the Jordan Peterson article and talk page would be the narrowest remedy that applies here. However with Canterbury's propensity for sealioning and repetitive arguments, I do worry that such a narrow sanction would just shift this problem to another article and talk page in the same content areas. Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:39, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by North8000[edit](Pinged) I did a quick read of the entire talk page and a quick scan of the edit history of the article. I did not analyze anything related to 1RR nor do an in-depth analysis. I don't see sanctionable behavior. The "favorable" coverage described looks like mostly straightforward informative info, something that persons desiring a negative article on him would want left out. The "above other editors" posting looks like proper talk page protocol where doing otherwise would have been wrong. While IMO the current level of talk page activity is IMO not problematic, my advice to CanteburyUK would be to dial it back a bit. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:48, 27 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Mr Ernie[edit]Iâm not seeing a clear 1RR violation in the posted diffs (sequential edits are considered to be counted as one). And the bludgeon thing can be a bit subjective. Shibbole you made a couple hundred edits to a recent AN thread, and nobody really thought that was sanctionable. That said, I would support a warning related to making sure to use reliable sources. Mr Ernie (talk) 01:09, 28 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Firefangledfeathers[edit]I doubt advising CanterburyUK to "dial it back a bit" will work. I worked hard to help them understand 1RR after their first violation (discussion), ending with a warning "not to make it the beginning of a pattern". They broke the rule four days later. Shibbolethink tried here to get them to dial back their talk page section creation, but they've created four more since. I'd be less (though still plenty) concerned about the bludgeoning if they didn't take silence as agreement. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 07:11, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Girth Summit[edit]I think that Shibbolethink is correct that this user's contributions do essentially amount to disruptive sealioning. The issues first came to my attention when I realised that they had added some stuff to 'balance' critical comments in the article about a meat-only diet, when the source was actually comparing vegetarian diets to diets that contain some meat - in other words, it was irrelevant, and a misuse of the source to push a particular POV. A rookie error, perhaps, and not really something to worry about, but the have continued in the same vein, attempting to crowbar in Peterson-friendly material using primary sources, Tweets and so on, and their habit of adding numerous, needlessly verbose and repetitive comments have turned the talkpage into a completely impenetrable wall of text. This habit is a bad combination with their willingness noted above by Firefangledfeathers to interpret silence as consensus - the impression I get is of someone trying to wear everyone else down by relentless argumentation, in hopes that other editors will let them get on with what they want to do out of sheer exhaustion. Some time away from this article, and editing others that they are less personally invested in, might help them develop their understanding of how talk page discussions and the consensus-building process work here. Girth Summit (blether) 13:07, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Snow Rise[edit]I'm a little torn here. On the one hand, the issues with the bludgeoning on the talk page (at least such as I observed in the brief window of my recent participation there) are quite pronounced, with the impact of the sheer number of rapid fire discussions opened (and the high volume of responses to other editors in those discussions) being further exacerbated by the size and wall-of-text nature of those replies, as well as a problematic unfamiliarity with standard talk page formatting and protocol. To understand what I mean, one need only do a superficial, high level visual review of the state of the TP as it presently reads. And that is before one even explores the details of what CanterburyUK actually advocates for, which to my eye, seem to suggest a fairly consistent confirmation bias when reviewing the sourcing, such as to exclude information which casts Peterson in anything less than a hagiographic light, regardless of the overall WP:WEIGHT of RS. On the other hand, we are talking about a relatively inexperienced editor here: yes, they have been on the project since 2008, but have only logged a little under 600 edits in that time, with gaps up to years in duration. With a pattern of involvement like that, it's possible that this is a sleeper sock account running parallel to others during that time, but I've seen no suggestion of that by any other community member, and absent at least that, I AGF this is just someone who occasionally gets the bug to edit on very particular political/BLP topics with hyperfocus over bursts of time: we do afterall get some genuine serial-SPA editors in that respect. That being the case, I'm not seeing a whole lot in terms of brightline policy violation just of yet. Obviously something substantial needs to change with regard to this editor's approach, and their talk page is kind of a mixed bag of concessions to that fact when engaging with some editors who have used a softer approach, while verging on WP:IDHT with some other community members who have been more blunt. But for a certainty, over the last couple of weeks, Canterbury's volume of engagement on the Peterson talk page has reduced dramatically, following the discussions opened on their personal talk page. So there seems to be some positive progress. Perhaps Bish's action in implementing the current pageban is the correct approach in threading the needle, removing CanterburyUK from a very narrow space (where they are being particularly activist) for the time being, while maintaining most of their editorial permissions. Again, afterall, I can't say that I don't think that was where we were headed eventually anyway. But by the same token, had I arrived here before that action was taken, I think on the balance of things I would have advocated for no formal action just yet, purely to be pro-forma with giving this editor time to adjust their approach short of sanction. SnowRise let's rap 21:55, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by SchroCat[edit]Rather like Mr Ernie above, I don't agree with the characterisation of the diffs (they can be hugely misleading without context), and sequential reverts are often considered as only being one, (except when people want to weaponise 1RR or 3RR restrictions). I also agree that bludgeoning is subjective and just counting comments doesn't give evidence or proof of anything. As to SEALIONING (dear lord, where do these ridiculous terms come from), again that's a subjective thing. CUK has made 44 edits on Jordan Peterson (they are 9th on the list of most active editors on the page); the person bringing this case has made 57. If you want the stats on bludgeoning accusation, CUK has made 138 edits to the Peterson talk page and are only 7th on the list of editors by volume on the page; the person who opened this thread has made 193. While CUK may not be a model editor, I don't see their behaviour as sanctionable, particularly on the "evidence" presented. - SchroCat (talk) 17:42, 30 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning CanterburyUK[edit]
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Dan Palraz
[edit]| TBAN from Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted, for 6 months. Callanecc (talk ⢠contribs ⢠logs) 06:55, 4 February 2023 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Dan Palraz[edit]
Dan Palraz has been exhibiting what I see to be extremely disruptive conduct and agenda-pushing on ARBPIA matters for a considerable amount of time. He is often edit warring to push his own viewpoints: Six Day War: see In addition to the obvious edit-warring, he occasionally refuses to leave edit summaries despite repeated requests (see here and here). When he does, he often just mentions the minor changes rather than the major ones. See this edit for example: while claiming to only update the population, he removed a chunk of information from the article. Moreover, Dan moves pages without any discussion, despite the fact that it is undoubtedly required in those cases:
Dan had been blocked twice in the past:
Me and other editors have warned him about his disruptive behavior previously (for example: #1, #2, #3, and by an admin, Doug Weller, right here), but each time he chooses to remove warnings as if nothing had occurred rather than responding and regretting his actions, often blanking his page (two examples: here and here).
It appears that some editors are of the belief that someone who has made mistakes in the past is not entitled to call for justice when they believe it is necessary. I'm surprised that there are some to prefer to make this about me, but I have answers for every accusation made here. First of all, we all know ARBPIA is a heated subject and that everyone who writes about it has opinions and feelings on it, which occasionally may result in emotional behavior (as most those involved, myself included, sometimes do). But -
In conclusion, I completely disagree with the comparison the editors here make between Dan and myself. Yes, we both have very strong opinions, but I think our mindsets and actions are really different. While I strive to become more familiar with the rules and always prefers to assume good faith, Dan's record demonstrates that he repeatedly breaks the same rules, many of them violations for which he has previously been blocked twice in the past (and here's another complaint making the same claim, July 2021). He had too many prior opportunities to behave better but chose to disregard them. It is abundantly clear to me from Dan's disruptive behavior, prior blocks, and what can only be described as a complete rejection of all criticism directed at him that his objective is not to improve Wikipedia but rather to advance his own opinions at all costs, making him unqualified to edit articles related to the ARBPIA. Tombah (talk) 07:54, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Dan Palraz[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Dan Palraz[edit]Hi, sorry I did not check the page yesterday. I cannot properly defend myself as I do not understand what I am being accused of; yes, I moved Rock-cut tombs in ancient Israel to Rock-cut tombs in ancient Palestine and Ring Neighborhoods, Jerusalem to Ring Settlements, East Jerusalem, and I would do it again, as I believe these are the proper names for both articles; if anyone disagrees with it and has valid arguments against it, one undoes the move, and I understood that is how Wikipedia worked. So if the accusation here is that of "agenda-pushing" I will refer to the three other users who I don't know, but whose support below I thank for, that if "agenda pushing" is an infraction, the same sanction should be applied to Tombah, whose history can be checked at any time to confirm it is more agenda-pushing than mine. If, however, having an agenda isn't an impeditive to editing per se â and I hope that is the case, for I can't find any single person editing Wikipedia who doesn't have their own positions and "agendas" â, I will be glad to refrain from any behavior that is pointed out to me as being infractions or against Wikipedia rules. Thank you. Dan Palraz (talk) 14:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier[edit]I wanted to wait for DP to defend himself but since we are already talking tban, I will say something now. The principal charge here is disruption over an extended period. Complainant writes I was not a participant but let's take the recent content dispute at 6 day war. DP broke 1R and so did another editor, an editor that T had earlier canvassed See here in respect of another article. T and the same editor appear again at the second editing dispute mentioned and again, backing each other up, with DP in the middle. T also recently breached 1R at another article. They actually broke it twice but because 2 of the reversions were contained in one edit, they were not required to self revert twice. See the short exchange here The two reversions were part of a large edit with edit summary "Styling". Is that not "disruptive"? T frequently, when reverted, simply reinserts the original edit without any attempt at discussion, essentially the same behavior complained of with respect to DP. I will let someone else comment more specifically about that but I can produce the diffs if needs be. The point about page moves seems incidental, it is desirable to discuss/RM for page moves in a CT area, not sure there is an outright rule against bold moves, I actually agree that a page move is needed in both cases cited by T. In any case, such undiscussed moves are simple enough to deal with and both moves were reverted by T (after this filing). DP does their homework even if they go a bit ott on occasion. T is a decent editor as long as they are in their comfort zone (Jewish history) but outside of that, exhibits a very strong POV, to put it mildly. (Examples here, here, here and here, all from one talk page (there are others similar). I rather think that the outcome here, whatever that might be, should be the same for both of these editors.
Statement by Iskandar323[edit]I don't have a great deal to add, but I would echo the observations of Selfstudier has Dan Paltraz has certainly not acted in a vacuum. E.g. Dan has only been able to edit war on a certain point at Six-Day War because another user, Dovidroth has been there every step of the way edit warring back. Dovid has been made aware and since apologized. Dan, however, was not extended the same courtesy by Tombah. I was actually already in the process of gently explaining the rules to both editors when Tombah jumped in and went all Rambo. This despite Tombah being caught red-handed for breaching WP:1RR limits at least three times in recent months and being extended an extraordinary degree of courtesy by other editors. I would add that, despite being repeatedly encouraged to self-revert, I'm not 100% sure if Tombah ever has. Other editors have nevertheless refrained from biting them, as a relatively new editor. In the context, it honestly takes some real cahunas for Tombah to file this case. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:50, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000[edit]Some of Dan Palraz' edits have been problematic, but as others have noted one would be hard-pressed to find a sin that Dan committed which Tombar has not also committed. Tombar's talk page history contains one complaint after another of 1RR violations, edit warring and disruptive editing. This is just a garden-variety attempt to get rid of an editor with an opposing POV. Zerotalk 00:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC) Statement by Number 57[edit]Based on what I've seen from Dan Palraz's edits when they've appeared on my watchlist (particularly Shilat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), a village partly in Israel and partly in no-man's land, which Dan repeatedly tried to (incorrectly) change to stating it was in the West Bank), I concur with Callanecc's view that he is unable to contribute to this topic area in an NPOV fashion, and an indef topic ban is appropriate. Number 57 20:08, 1 February 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Dan Palraz[edit]
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Jim Michael 2
[edit]| Closing in favour of community discussion at ANI regarding stronger sanctions for Jim Michael 2 than are being discussed here. Callanecc (talk ⢠contribs ⢠logs) 01:09, 5 February 2023 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Jim Michael 2[edit]
Jim Michael 2 has been bludgeoning a discussion on Talk:2022 with extremely repetitive comments regarding whether or not a recently deceased person, Barbara Walters, warrants mention in our 2022 article. He has continued to do so, despite repeated warning from other editors on both on his user talk page (26 January 2023) and in the discussion itself (29 January 2023, again on 29 January 2023, a third time on 29 January 2022 and 30 January 2023). For the sake of convenience, I've broken out some of the repetitive diffs by type. A number of diffs from Jim Michael 2 contain responses to multiple users, so they may be repeated in the different subsections below: Repeating the same stuff about Christiane Amanpour over and over:
We don't do tokenism/quotas/discrimination:
At the time of my writing, he has responded to precisely zero of these warnings, and has continued to bludgeon the discussion at will. Long-term editors generally shouldn't need to be warned by four separate editors that they are bludgeoning the exact same discussion in order to knock it off, and I'd ask that the user be given a logged warning as a discretionary sanction as a formal reminder to not bludgeon future discussions involving recently deceased people and a deterrent against repeating this sort of behavior in the future. On a more procedural note, it looks like Jim Michael 2 has made exactly 20 diffs in this RfC when the one at 2023-01-16 00:46 is included. I am requesting an extension in both length of my complaint and in number of diffs I can link to (if need be; I'm not sure if my linking to the warning diffs counts) so that I can better demonstrate the extent of bludgeoning present.
Discussion concerning Jim Michael 2[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Jim Michael 2[edit]I'm not going to even read that discussion on Talk:2022 again, let alone edit it, so this is action is pointless. I'm not going to revert any additions of Walters to 2022, including adding her to the lead & adding a photo of her. All further comments by me on that talk page will be unrelated to her. I'll no longer disagree with people who say that she was at the top of her field & should've been on ITN between PelĂŠ & Benedict. Therefore, any restrictions imposed on me on that page are unnecessary. The discussions on her have taken a ridiculous amount of time. I wish I'd stopped editing that discussion much sooner & had I known it'd continue for so long & be deluged with many people arguing for her inclusion I wouldn't have started contributing to it. I haven't edited any of the articles about Walters or Amanpour & don't intend to, so there's no point blocking me from editing those. I'm sorry for any problems I may have caused & for breaking any guidelines. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:30, 30 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Shibbolethink[edit]As someone completely not involved in this situation and who doesn't know the accused, I think this is a pretty clear case of bludgeoning. If others don't find your arguments convincing, it isn't helpful to keep bringing them up. If others have warned you about bludgeoning, it is your perogative (and at your own peril) that you continue to bring it up. At some point, if others aren't carrying the banner for your arguments, they aren't worth making. I would agree this merits sanctions (and perhaps most of all preventative to stop this user from disrupting the discussion). I would recommend a temporary page block from this page until the RFC is closed or archived, whichever comes first. I say temporary only because this is a time-based discussion and the most narrow sanction is usually the best in cases like this.â Shibbolethink (â â) 17:21, 30 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Levivich[edit]Jim says he quit the discussion sometime between 13:29 (his most-recent comments) and 17:15 (when this AE was filed). What a coincidence. Levivich (talk) 17:57, 30 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by MarioJump83[edit]This should bear mentioning that Jim Michael 2 used Anne Heche repeatedly when arguing about inclusion based on fame and popularity. I don't have any other comments, other than being involved in these discussions, which I staked a moderate position but I also noticed repetitive arguments which created the hostile environment for people in other side of the discussions. MarioJump83 (talk) 03:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by WaltCip[edit]I am involved, so I am not completely without bias in this discussion. However, the bludgeoning diffs are there for all to see. A logged warning is probably the best idea, since there appears to not be any further disruption that would be suppressed by a block. As I mentioned in my thoughts on the village pump, consensus can change, and just because a local consensus has been long-standing without controversy for years, that does not mean it will stay in place forever. We undergo similar sea changes at WP:ITN from time to time, and while change might be difficult, resisting doggedly and disruptively is not a good look. --đWaltCip-(talk) 14:11, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Thebiguglyalien[edit]I've been heavily involved in these discussions with Jim. Similar behavior is occurring at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years. All from this month: dismissing inclusionists as "fans" of things they're adding (1, 2, 3, 4, 5); enforcing local consensus as policy (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8); accusing InvadingInvader of bad faith arguing for offering multiple compromises that would take the articles in different directions: (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). See also: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Create Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Years. It's also worth nothing that this is part of a larger systemic issue at the WikiProject; the WikiProject talk page has a long series of arguments with other users engaging in similar ownership behavior going back well into the archives. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:23, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by InvadingInvader[edit](Disclaimer: involved) If anything, the core of the issue to me seems like a failure to assume good faith and violations of WP:OWN across the board. Admittedly, I originally viewed allegations of WP:OWN violations with skepticism, though at this point, I'm particularly concerned not just at the frequency of repeated arguments but also the hostile tone (such as "new editors proposing radical changes" and similar phrasings, as seen in the cited diffs), both of which creates an environment hostile to anything that goes along with "the regulars". Extraordinary Writ's statement is one I fully agree with; we all need to tone it down and look to reach middle ground more often. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 21:29, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Black Kite[edit]After a long time editing the current years pages I finally gave up during this discussion about Robbie Coltrane, the discussion may be enlightening regarding this case, or not. Black Kite (talk) 10:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Jim Michael 2[edit]
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Super Dromaeosaurus, Mzajac and Jeppiz
[edit]| Closing with no action. Concerns regarding Mzajac's conduct should be addressed with a arbitration case request. Callanecc (talk ⢠contribs ⢠logs) 01:14, 5 February 2023 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Super Dromaeosaurus, Mzajac and Jeppiz[edit]
Additional comments by editor filing complaint :[edit]In my view, the OP has directly addressed a matter of content and therefore, it does not rise to WP:NOTFORUM. The ANI thread link clearly and directly relates since it was linked in the subject thread. I am following the recommendation of the closer by bringing this matter here rather than ANI. Like most people, I abhor the Russian invasion. I firmly believe in the principles at WP:OUTRAGE. I believe we should be circumspect in our writing and avoid the appearance of being partisan. My position does not mean that we must give undue weight to fringe theories but sometimes we must discuss them - civilly. Cinderella157 (talk) 04:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Paul Siebert, the first diff was by Super Dromaeosaurus (which I have just clarified) and not Mzajac. Cinderella157 (talk) 06:17, 31 January 2023 (UTC) This would suggest the OP's thousands is not unreasonable. AGF? Cinderella157 (talk) 11:46, 31 January 2023 (UTC) I agree with Paul Siebert's characterisation, that Mzajac's first post[54] was not unreasonable - except that their first post is not a subject of the report. I think Paul has misunderstood. The first diff by Super Dromaeosaurus is fairly clearly a categorical allegation of misconduct against the OP coupled with a threat (blocking). There is no AGF. P&G would tell us that such rhetoric has no pace on an article TP. Each subsequent post (in my view) both affirms and builds on the afore, thereby acting in concert (jointly, together). This does not assert collusion. Collectively, this is something like the dynamics of a lynch mob. In my view it is bullying and I have responded to Paul ( I won't dispute Rosguill's assessment that Jeppiz's reverting the OP was a line call. Jeppiz states
Discussion concerning Super Dromaeosaurus, Mzajac and Jeppiz[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Super Dromaeosaurus[edit]No idea what I am doing here. Apparently I've been brought because I said That Ukraine is led by neo-Nazis and that it has committed genocide against Russians in Donbas are some of the main points Vladimir Putin has invented to murder thousands and displace millions. Cinderella157 may believe these inventions have a place in a rational, serious discussion; for me, they are absolutely unacceptable, and I do not understand why they believe calling out this propaganda deserves sanctioning. I find the unfounded accusation of organization or whatever by Cinderella157 [59] or of bullying made in the initial comment here against the three of us more serious. I don't understand what this user is trying to achieve with this. It causes me distrust in their intentions. Super Ψ Dro 14:34, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Mzajac[edit]The complaint alleges that the OP âaddressed a matter of content,â and that the encyclopedia should cover issues of WP:OUTRAGE. Well, the encyclopedia could, for example, reflect any notable coverage of people who say Hitler had some good ideas. But if someone starts a discussion insisting that wiki voice should allow that yeah, Hitler may have had some good ideas, I think itâs reasonable for several editors to state that we donât agree with that and we should not. I think several editors believe thatâs what happened here. Except the OP actually wrote âThe claim that Putin "falsely" claimed that the country is run by neo-Nazis is questionable - we have no idea who is pulling the strings in Ukraine, and neo-Nazis have had a strong influence in the pastâ and âthe bombings of civilians in Donbas between 2014 and 2022, which caused thousands of civilian deaths, clearly meet the UN definition of genocide.â Advocating Putinâs racist thesis used to demonize and dehumanize Ukrainians, which has been cited as evidence of his incitement to genocide[1] (see Accusation in a mirror and Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine). I see the OPâs statement more like Hitler was right. I believe this kind of speech is harmful and should not be seen as acceptable. Itâs been my experience that even slightly off-colour remarks in major discussions have tended to multiply, and have made a point of drawing attention to them to keep a lid on it. Well this is way beyond that. I believe this is an administrative or disciplinary matter. As I am involved in the subject and the discussion, I did not act as an admin. I left one comment to make my view available to the community and to any admin that should choose to act. I left another agreeing that the OP had crossed a line and disciplinary action is appropriate (I imagined a warning or brief block). And I left one complaint about a separate enforcement, which I probably ought to have kept to myself. I did not coordinate with anyone or try to pile on the OP. I donât believe anyone else did either. I want to express my shock and disappointment that @user:Cinderella157, who doesnât appear to have participated in the original discussion, would choose this as a forum to appear to give credence the âgenocide by Ukrainiansâ libel by stating âthe OPâs thousands is not unreasonable.â I wonât discuss content questions here, but if anyone is interested I could address that inaccurate and irrelevant statement in an appropriate place. âMichael Z. 15:45, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Speculation about my ancestry, country of origin, citizenship, or residence are personal information and subject to WP:PRIVACY. They are also extremely inappropriate for this or any public discussion. I could go on but will leave it at that. I refer to responses by user:Paul Siebert and user:GizzyCatBella, below. [I have yet to respond to other statements] References
Statement by Jeppiz[edit]It seems the only complaint filed against me is that I once removed a post as per WP:NOTAFORUM. As Rosguill points out below, it was indeed a "borderline call". I first answered the user, but then corrected myself and removed it as forum-violation. In doing so, I clearly stated my reason in the diff: the actual matter at hand (bias in the use of wikivoice) was already under active discussion:, the comment didn't add anything. Instead, most of the comment was, in my eyes, just meant to smear Ukrainians. For those reasons I made the call that it violated WP:NOTAFORUM and removed it. Cinderella157 reinstated it, and that was that. My only further interaction was to provide the same argument as above for why I had made the call to remove it. Statement by Ymblanter[edit]It is clear to me that Mzajac is not capable of editing in the topic area impartially. They are completely uncritical to what they say and hypercritical to what others say, often not really listening and assuming everything their opponents say is a personal attack. As a result, we see things like this (linking the whole thread, from two days ago), this, or this (whitewashing a Holocaust perpetrator). As something else, note for example low quality of argument here: This is a good example of IDONOTHEAR. I would also argue that this behavior is incompatible with being administrator (for example, the last link was doubling down in response to this, which contradicts ADMINACCT), but this is not an AE story. I would argue however, that Wikipedia would benefit from a topic ban of Mzajac from anything related to Ukraine. And this topic ban must be not time-limited, like it was last time - the topic ban expired, and Mzajac continued the same behavior - but unlimited, only lifted after an appeal.--Ymblanter (talk) 04:39, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Paul Siebert[edit]I have a long history of disagreement with Michael, and he even submitted a totally ridiculous complaint against me
whish was immediately closed. That demonstrates that I by no means is sympathetic to Michael.
However, upon having looked at the evidences presented by Cinderella, I have to concede that they are unconvincing. Thus, the first diff is the Michael's reaction on the statement Also, the bombings of civilians in Donbas between 2014 and 2022, which caused thousands of civilian deaths, clearly meet the UN definition of genocide. The word "falsely" should be taken out of this section. Come on, that is a TOTAL BULLSHIT!. Where the figures of "thousands of civilian deaths" came from? As far as I know, the number of civilian deaths in 2018-20 didn't exceed 10-20 people annually, and I partially agree with Ymblanter that Michael's behaviour is somewhat problematic. He is editing Ukraine related topics from the positions of Primordialism, which is a generally discredited concept. He does not understand some of our policies (thus, he repeatedly accused me of OR during talk page discussions, despite the fact that, as I already explained to him, WP:NOR does not apply to talk page space (so, as soon as I am not posting this information in the article's space, I cannot be accused of NOR violation). However, all these problems are minor and forgivable ... for an ordinary user. But Michael is an admin! IMO, the fact that the admin is being discussed at AE (and, Michael was even topic banned once) is hardly consistent with WP:ADMIN. I disagree with Ymblanter that Michael should be banned from Ukraine related topics. However, his redundantly emotional behaviour and insufficiently competent judgements are hardly consistent with his admin status. I may be wrong, but Michael's user page information suggests he has relatively close ties with Ukraine. There is a war in his country, a terrible and a totally unprovoked war. Therefore, Michael's redundantly emotional behaviour is totally understandable and forgivable. I think, a correct solution in this situation would be if Michael voluntarily suspends his admin rights (or just takes an obligation not to use them) until the war in Ukraine ends (with Ukrainian victory, of course). After that, when all passions settle, we may return to this story.--Paul Siebert (talk) 05:25, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by GizzyCatBella[edit]@Paul Siebert, note that there are two more editors against whom enforcement is also requested. - GizzyCatBellađ 05:55, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Tamzin[edit]I comment just to discuss one particular habit of Mzajac's that I find concerning. I neither propose nor oppose any particular remedy for it, and I note that I have had both pleasant agreements and pleasant disagreements with Michael on the topic of Russia and Ukraine. But in light of the quote above about "UN definition of a genocide", I do want to raise two past interactions I've had with Michael: At Talk:List of invasions and occupations of Ukraine § Missing items, he argued that the list should include several items that no reliable sources characterize as invasions or occupations of Ukraine. When I objected, he referred to the dictionary definition of "invasion" and an appeal to common sense. And at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Atrocities in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, regarding a disambiguation page he'd made, he argued to keep because the page was in keeping with the legal definition of "atrocity". Whether or not any sanctions are needed, I do think this is a troubling misunderstanding of all three of our core content policies (Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Verifiability, and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view)âone that has apparently come up in three separate contexts now, all related to Russia and Ukraine. All editors in such a sensitive topic should understand that general definitions of a term do not give you license to add unsourced and/or non-neutral material. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 07:16, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Andrevan[edit]I must say, I am involved in the dispute (I reverted this edit[62] that was included in the report) and a non-admin, but I do not see a lot of substance in this report. Also a little surprised to see some of the other comments focusing on issues entirely unrelated to the report given. I do not think there is a civility or bullying issue in evidence here. I think there is a content dispute and a few users who are advocating for fringe POVs or making claims that Wikipedia is biased etc., and these should rightly and appropriately be rebutted. It seems clear that Michael Z. is WP:INVOLVED and acting as a non-admin in this dispute, so I do not see any usage of his admin rights in this report or any ADMINACCT issue. Folks who come to a talk page to criticize Wikipedia's alleged bias should indeed be warned that this isn't a productive tack to engage in constructive improvements to the content. They have to offer specific and actionable changes on the talk page or WP:NOTFORUM may indeed be invoked, and if this was a misinvocation because there was something good faith to discuss, that is still not rising to the level of this AE report IMHO. I think the OP's allegation of coordination is unfounded and lacks good faith. Andređ 16:55, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Statement by Red-tailed hawk[edit]Mzajac has repeatedly used his administrative tools to delete Battle of Kyiv so that Battle of Kiev could be moved to it, even after objections from other administrators who asked him to go through the RM process. This all despite the fact that he is clearly WP:INVOLVED in this naming dispute. â Red-tailed hawk (nest) 18:39, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Statement by ValarianB[edit]No involvement. But noting that the speculation of another editor's ethnicity and/or nationality (as pointed out by Mzajac), and the suggestion that their edits are motivated by this, is a rather significant accusation to levy. These should be supported with evidence or withdrawn. Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Super Dromaeosaurus, Mzajac and Jeppiz[edit]
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Softlemonades
[edit]This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Softlemonades
[edit]- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Cambial Yellowing (talk ¡ contribs ¡ deleted contribs ¡ logs ¡ filter log ¡ block user ¡ block log) 13:08, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Softlemonades (talk ¡ contribs ¡ deleted contribs ¡ logs ¡ filter log ¡ block user ¡ block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history ⢠in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2#Contentious topic designation
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 8 Feb 2023 13:26 violates "Consensus Required" applied to the page in October 2021; adds new material to the page a second time that had been challenged and was under discussion
- 8 Feb 2023 14:54 violates "Consensus Required" and 1RR, re-adding the same material
- 9 Feb 2023 06:32 violates "Consensus Required" and 1RR, re-adding different material without discussion and without establishing consensus
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 5 April 2022 and again on 27 January 2023
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
The page has been a particularly contentious area for some time. At one point the talk page reached some half a million bytes. The restoration of the Consensus Required sanction has done much to reduce this, and has meant that significant changes have had the backing of clear consensus or by RFC. Softlemonades has sidestepped this by generally simply ignoring it, despite reminders of the page restrictions.
- As Softlemonades has raised the issue of a closely related page, it's worth discussing here. Here are the reverts made by Softlemonades on that page in one 24-hour period:
- and within the next four hours after that
- Softlemonades, accusing someone of "edit-warring" after they make a single edit to a page is prima facie absurd. Edit-warring by an individual needs *at least* two edits to the page. None of your claims address your problematic behaviour at the article Julian Assange. Cambial â foliar⧠14:23, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Drmies, you say you are uninvolved, yet when there was an edit war at the closely-related page Wikileaks, you blocked one editor but took no action at all against the other (who breached 3rr first and by several more edits). Why? This seems to be deciding a content dispute by administrative fiat.
- Drmies you make a claim of an "
inveterate edit warrior
" and refer to a breach of 3rr two years ago on an unrelated article â the ip editor's insertion of unsourced content had already been reverted before me by two other editors and would subsequently be reverted by two others. Where have I incorrectly signalled a lack of consensus? You give no diffs to support that claim, which has not in fact occurred. Cambial â foliar⧠16:13, 8 February 2023 (UTC)- Drmies your baseless characterisation of a neutral and polite edit summary as
pompous and misleading
is not objective or constructive. "In accordance with WP:CR applied to this page, please gain affirmative consensus for the addition of new material
". The only misleading aspect a reasonable person could find is that WP:CR is not the correct link to consensus required - I should have checked the shortcut first. The phrase "affirmative consensus
" is taken from the restriction's talk page template, which says Changes challenged by reversion may not be reinstated without affirmative consensus on the talk page. The notion that one person giving a single-sentence response represents affirmative consensus is a narrow interpretation, to put it mildly. Over the year since El_C (talk ¡ contribs) restored the restriction, all other editors have interpreted it to mean a wider, more explicit consensus than "2 for, 1 opposed". - You say you p-blocked me on the Wikileaks page but not
the others
- there was only one "other" - Softlemonades. Their violations of the same policy that you blocked me for, and those that I've listed above, you've simply ignored in both cases. You've also gone to some length to dig up a 4rr warning from two years ago on a completely unrelated matter (the IP editor whose unsourced claims I reverted was indeffed for personal attacks and edit warring a week later). This does not seem like the behaviour of an uninvolved, disinterested admin. - As to whether I edited "neutrally" - always a value term - my edits at Wikileaks and at Julian Assange have invariably been to uphold BLP standards for a living person. A highly, highly unpopular person in the US, granted, but that does not negate the need to adhere to mainstream secondary sourcing. Cambial â foliar⧠18:36, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Doug Weller: If you recall, I immediately emailed you about this, you responded, and I replied to you. I had hoped that had resolved the matter, but if not please reply to my email of the 21 Jan 1:41 pm UK time. Cambial â foliar⧠18:36, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Doug Weller: As I mentioned in my email, that edit to my talk page was in no way a response to the DS notice you placed, nor to anything else. As you can see there was a near-18-month gap between you placing the DS notice and those edits. They were not a response to it. Cambial â foliar⧠18:57, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Drmies your baseless characterisation of a neutral and polite edit summary as
- HJ, what is the basis for your characterising my approach to editing that way? Apart from adding scholarship - very rarely a source of conflict - I spend the majority of my other edits either removing unsourced material or poorly-sourced BLP content. Cambial â foliar⧠15:47, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
- Softlemonades, you raise an earlier set of edits. As has already been discussed in the conversation immediately following those diffs, a conversation in which you took part, that content was added three years earlier by Burrobert. Consensus Required was added in late 2021. It means that if an edit, such as yours on 7 December, has been challenged, a consensus that your edit on 7 December should be carried out needs to be established on talk before anyone does the edit a second time. It's odd that you say you
dont think they brought it to talk
when you commented multiple times123 in that conversation. Cambial â foliar⧠00:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Softlemonades, you raise an earlier set of edits. As has already been discussed in the conversation immediately following those diffs, a conversation in which you took part, that content was added three years earlier by Burrobert. Consensus Required was added in late 2021. It means that if an edit, such as yours on 7 December, has been challenged, a consensus that your edit on 7 December should be carried out needs to be established on talk before anyone does the edit a second time. It's odd that you say you
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Softlemonades
[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Softlemonades
[edit]- Cambial is constantly edit warring and has been repeatedly warned and recently banned on a related page, and removed RS material and used CR to try to control the page. An admin User:Drmies talked to them about this on this page a week ago. diff
- Cambial has been removing selective assessments. Cambial removed an assessment saying the source wasnt secondary when it obviously was. I told him that
if you use this reasoning you need to use it on all of them and not just assessments that arent positive
and he saidThe claims you make about what I need to do are not accurate.
diff - Ive asked Cambial to stop edit warring. He reverted it as absurd.
- The last revert Cambial cites didnt involve him but a different editor, and it addressed in Talk where the other editor says they didnt see two of the sources. It also wasnt just a revert because I added stuff addressing the editors issue Softlemonades (talk) 13:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
not saying that Softlemonades isn't quick to revert
Ill work on it and try to be better Softlemonades (talk) 15:48, 8 February 2023 (UTC)- HJ Mitchell
- I ignored Cambials warnings because he overuses them. Example February 7 2022, he warns me about template abuse for asking him to stop edit warring. diff
- I thought the 1RR and sanctions policy was less strict because of how Cambial used it
- Diff 1, 03:44, 7 December 2022 I delete text
- Diff 2, 22:20, 11 December 2022 Cambial restores text edit summary says its RS
- Diff 3, 23:42, 11 December 2022 SPECIFICO deletes text, edit summary says I removed it so it needs consensus to restore and cites page restrictions
- Diff 4, 06:44, 12 December 2022 Cambial restores text again, edit summary says it needs consensus to restore and cites page restrictions
I dont think they brought it to talk.So when Cambial was the only one who said anything, I didnt take it very seriously. And when Burroberts edit summary,That's an odd quote to pull from a long essay.
, made it clear they didnt see the other two sources, one had it in the headline, I reverted it and then explained on talk.
- Ill be less quick to revert whatever happens. But I wanted to explain. Softlemonades (talk) 23:54, 12 February 2023â (UTC)
It's odd that you say you dont think they brought it to talk
I just looked at the talk page which went to before the edits and saw nothing about it. I didnt think I had to check the archives since it had discussions older than the edits. Softlemonades (talk) 01:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Sideswipe9th
[edit]@Doug Weller and Drmies: the "lying cunt and a piece of dogshit" is in relation to these two diffs; [72], [73] where over two edits Cambial first inserted "a lying cunt" into Doug's signature, then replaced it with "a lying piece of dogshit" a minute later. It remained in that signature until it was removed twenty days later [74] by another editor. Sideswipe9th (talk) 17:37, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what prompted Cambial to do that though. A quick check of the interaction analyser doesn't reveal anything obvious to me in the interaction data between Doug and Cambial in the three months prior to making the edit. Sideswipe9th (talk) 17:46, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
Statement by NadVolum
[edit]If you're going to do anything can you do it to both at the same time thanks. I'd prefer the Assange article not be left to the tender mercies of just one of them. As to the accusaion of NOTHERE I believe that is quite wrong for either of them. They are both valuable contributors in their own ways and they try to respect Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. They can also be a pain in the neck in their own ways, but Wikipedia is full of pains in the neck and many far far worse that nothing is done about. They do seem to try to collaborate with others. I have not seen either deliberately trying to do others down or use everything in WP:DISRUPTIVE as a guide to how to get their way in pushng their POV. NadVolum (talk) 19:53, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
[edit]Result concerning Softlemonades
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Cambial Yellowing is an inveterate edit warrior (not saying that Softlemonades isn't quick to revert) who consistently misapplies terms like "consensus"--or incorrectly signals a lack of consensus. They're p-blocked from WikiLeaks; they should be p-blocked from the entire area. And perhaps it's time for more serious sanctions, as I suggested earlier. I just don't think they are capable of editing impartially.
Going through their talk page history (which they usually blank) is instructive too: warnings are all over the place, esp. for edit warring--here was one from Oshwah, for edit warring on United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, so this has been going on for years. User:Doug Weller, do you care to expand on this, "a lying cunt and a piece of dogshit"? The more I look at their edits, the more I am thinking of NOTHERE. Drmies (talk) 15:40, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, I can't find it. I've looked but don't want to waste any more time searching. Doug Weller talk 16:14, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
*::@Drmies On the other hand, if you were accused of that, and it wasn't true, wouldn't you deny it and ask me to prove it? Almost anyone would. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Oops, I missed the fact that the clever User: Sideswipe9th found it. It was Cambial Yellowing's response to my DS notice last April. I'll support more serous sanctions.Doug Weller talk 18:37, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Cambial Yellowing, I picked up on one slightly older warning to indicate that this is an ongoing problem. That's what "inveterate" means. That I p-blocked you and not the others is precisely because it has become clear to me that you cannot edit neutrally etc.--as opposed to those you keep fighting with. Anyone can look through the archives of ANI and ANEW to find that this is not a new thing. And you could have protested my p-block, or even my later warning, but your only response for that block was this--in keeping with how dismissively you treat communications, warnings, and notifications. You also never responded to VQuakr's rather detailed ANEW report, which resulted in that p-block for WikiLeaks. I am not going to give an exhaustive list of diffs of all your disruptive edits, but this diff, placed above by Softlemonades, is instructive, pointing as it does to a talk page conversation where you were opposed by two editors--and your response is to revert, with the rather pompous and misleading summary "'n accordance with WP:CR applied to this page, please gain affirmative consensus for the addition of new material". Drmies (talk) 17:19, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- @User:Cambial Yellowing yes, but you never explained the three week gap between posting and deleting when i asked. Your explanation made sense but didnât convince me you should be editing. Doug Weller talk 19:16, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- I feel some sort of sanction for Softlemonades is necessary based on the diffs presented above. They have clearly edit-warred and violated the "consensus required" restriction and the 1RR. An article ban or narrow topic ban may be in order, unless there's a suggestion that they have misconducted themselves in the broader topic area. As for Cambial Yellowing, I'd love to hear an argument for why their combative approach to editing doesn't necessitate an indefinite block. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:56, 12 February 2023 (UTC)